• [00:20:01]
• • Scripture reference:
    • Proverbs 3:7, ESV

• [00:25:06]
  • Datebox: FierceMarriage.com/datebox
    • Note: Code “Fierce” no longer receives free Datebox; a discount on the price of first box is still given.

 

 

[00:00:07]
Selena:
Welcome to the Fierce Marriage podcast, where we believe that marriage takes a fierce tenacity that never gives up and refuses to give in.

Ryan:
Here we’ll share openly and honestly about all things marriage.

Selena:
Sex.

Ryan:
Communication.

Selena:
Finances.

Ryan:
Priorities.

Selena:
Purpose.

Ryan:
And everything in between.

Selena:
Laugh, ponder, and join in on candid, gospel-centered conversations.

This is Fierce Marriage.

[00:00:38]
Ryan:
Hi, and welcome!

Selena:
Hiii! [Both chuckle]

Ryan:
[Intro music fading out] This is the first ever episode of the Fierce Marriage Podcast.

Selena:
Whew!

Ryan:
We are very excited! This is something that we’ve been dreaming about and thinking about for… I can actually say this, “for years!” [Selena laughs] I’ve been wanting to do this.

Selena:
Yeah. We’ve been excited about being able to be more relational and not just kind of on the screen in writing, but—

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
Being able to talk and hear you, and yeah!

Ryan:
Right, and yeah! And frankly, we’ve just been moving around for far too long. We’ve also had babies [Both chuckle] in there, and so everything’s kind of been pushing this out. And you know when it’s a new thing and you’ve never done it before, and it tends to get put on the chopping block. So, anyway! If you’re listening to this, we’re so glad that you chose to put us in your ears!

Selena:
Yes! [Laughs]

Ryan:
And hear what we have to say. We hope to have some fun with this medium. We also hope to share more transparently than we ever have before.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And in ways that you can actually hear our hearts better than perhaps through the written word and through a screen or a piece of paper, like in one of the books, devotionals, that we’ve written. So, anyways! We’re so glad to be here. And we thought it would be fun to warm up ourselves and you guys, to get to know us a little bit with our highs and lows, is what we like to do. We do this around the dinner table and the breakfast table.

Selena:
Mmm-hmm.

Ryan:
When we think about it with our kids, and we do it with each other, and basically you just go through and look over the past day or the past week and just say what’s the high point and what’s the low point! So, Selena, I’m going to put you on the spot.

Selena:
Yeah, low point, I think, for this week was just having a sick little kiddo. That’s always hard, ‘cause they’re kind of fussy and not feeling well, and not getting any sleep, so nobody’s really getting sleep. [Snicker] So… That’s kind of hard! But…

Ryan:
And sick little kiddo being Clementine.

Selena:
Yeah, our youngest. [In a sing-songy voice] She’s one year old! [Resumes normal voice]

Ryan:
And she’s the cutest little squishy…

Selena:
She really is cute! She’s really cute.

Ryan:
And she, ugh, she just melts my heart. Both daughters—We have two daughters, by the way! Which we’ll get into that. We’ll tell them more about our family, but—

Selena:
Did you have a low? Since we’re on the lows, you want to share?

Ryan:
Since we’re on the lows… Goodness! I put these notes together and I didn’t even think about it. I think my low point would have to be…

Selena:
My high was cleaning out the garage this last weekend!

Ryan:
[Laughs] Oh yeah.

Selena:
We’ve been trying to do that! [Laughs]

Ryan:
Oh yeah, coincidentally, that’s my low point. [Selena laughs] So… [Ryan laughs] I was just going… Yeah, I think I was probably in a really grumpy mood!

Selena:
Yuuup.

Ryan:
Over the weekend. [Both laugh] So, I think…

Selena:
Not the whole weekend!

Ryan:
Yeah, there were a few spots in there where I wish I could take those back! I probably was—

Selena:
Don’t we all?

Ryan:
I said somethings in ways that I shouldn’t have said them. Nothing horrible, but just definitely a low point.

Selena:
We love you! You’re forgiven.

Ryan:
Well, thank you. [Selena giggles] It took a podcast to bring us together…

Selena:
[Laughing] It took a podcast… [Both chuckle]

Ryan:
Alright, so, a high point. What’s your high point?

Selena:
I said cleaning the garage out!

Ryan:
Oh, that’s right. I listen well. [Selena laughs] We’re going to talk about communication! [Ryan chuckles and Selena laughs] Anyway. My high point is, we’ve got some really exciting things. Actually, this is a high point for me, recording this, because it’s been a long time coming, like I said!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And it’s finally happening! And I’m sitting right next to my beautiful bride doing it! So, that’s amazing. Anyway. So, today—

Selena:
No, no low. You can have highs, but you can’t have—

Ryan:
My low was—

Selena:
If you don’t want to have a low.

Ryan:
Well, my low was how—

Selena:
Was the garage?

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Okay.

Ryan:
It was just… I regret. [Selena laughs] I regret some things.

Selena:
[Laughing] Okay. Alright, well, moving on! [Both laugh] As Ryan said, this is our first show, so we’re going to answer a few general “get to know you” questions. We’re really excited about being able to talk to you! We feel like there’s just a lot that can be learned and gleaned through voice, and through building community. And today’s kind of unique, I think—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
In that it’s our first episode. So, we hope it’s beneficial, but it’s kind of a unique format for today!

Ryan:
It feels like there’s this disconnect, right? Because social media gives you this weird sort of, “Hey! You’re connected, but you’re not really. You don’t get to see people face-to-face or hear their voice. But there’s just something so different and unique about…

Selena:
Beneficial, I feel like.

Ryan:
Yeah, and very beneficial about hearing the inflection in someone’s voice when they’re talking.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And hearing kind of the uncut version of things. And that’s what we’re hoping this medium will be. It’s kind of the uncut story of our… Well, I guess uncut conversations!

[00:05:08]
Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
The videos are very short. They have to be very short, but this is going to be a little bit longer. So, I think for this first show, we just want to introduce ourselves!

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Intentionally.

Selena:
He’s Ryan. I’m Selena. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Yes!

Selena:
I’m 35 years old. He’s going to be 35 years old.

Ryan:
[Chuckling] No, no, no, no.

Selena:
There’s six—

Ryan:
I’m 34.

Selena:
He’s six months younger than me, but—

Ryan:
We don’t phrase it like that.

Selena:
We joke about that, of course.

Ryan:
I got an older woman. [Snickers]

Selena:
[Exhales exaggeratedly] Right? We graduated the same year.

Ryan:
Later on, we’ll be—

Selena:
It’s all the same! It’s all the same.

Ryan:
We’ll be starting a… a ladies’ man contest.

Selena:
[Giggles] We got married at the ripe old age of 20 and 21! We dated for four years.

Ryan:
I regret nothing!

Selena:
[Laughing] We dated for four years before that; did two years in high school, two years in college. We went to different colleges. Our first five years of marriage, we…

Ryan:
Well, yeah, and we’re also glossing over a lot of things, but… Yeah.

Selena:
Yeah, sorry, trying to give you an intro to our lives. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Yeah, you’re not going to get the full biography here, but…

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
But yeah, there’s a lot of challenges in there.

Selena:
In those first few years, yep!

Ryan:
Some really big ones!

Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
And we will get to those in later episodes. And later—

Selena:
Yeah… Sorry.

Ryan:
Writings.

Selena:
I’m in transitions! We moved to California for a few years, and that’s where we had our first baby, Adelaide, who is now almost four years old. And then, after a few years in the desert and doing ministry, we decided— the desert meaning southern California— we decided to move back! [Sound of a microphone being bumped] Sorry! God called us back! We are back in Tacoma.

Ryan:
Mm-hm!

Selena:
And we had another little baby last year!

Ryan:
Washington.

Selena:
Tacoma, Washington.

Ryan:
Yeah, the pacific northwest—

Selena:
[Giggles] Sorry.

Ryan:
Is where we were born and raised, so we—

Selena:
Born and raised!

Ryan:
We left and with south, came back five years later with a baby in hand.

Selena:
Mm-hm. Yep.

Ryan:
And another one close behind.

Selena:
Yeah… We’ve been married for… 14 years? It was 14 this past September.

Ryan:
Mm-hm! It was 14 this last September… Yeah! We waited, by the way—People always say, “What do you know about marriage?”

Selena:
Yeah…

Ryan:
And which is actually one of the big questions we get, is, “Why even start Fierce Marriage?”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
As a blog, ministry, platform, whatever you want to call it! And it’s a bit of a lengthy story; I’ll make it short. But basically, before any of this, I am a web developer, a graphic designer, and had a small boutique, a graphic design/web development company! And was kind of just in the trenches with one of the projects I was working on. We had some big, I would consider them, bigger name clients on the East coast and things, and kind of brands that I at one point would have dreamed of working with them. And here I was, actually doing work for them. And I was writing some code and doing a little bit of design work, and I just got so frustrated because I saw a lot of people that were younger than me at the time, I think I was probably 28-29, and a lot of people younger than me were… frankly speaking, being recognized a lot more and having a lot more success! And for me, that was an idol that God has had to kind of weed out of my heart! But I think He used that frustration and that wrong view of things to realign my heart with kind of what He wanted us to do! So, anyway! I was just sitting there in my office in California, which was just our second bedroom; we had no children yet. [Selena giggles] And just kind of threw my hands up and said, “Well, God, what do you want us to do? What can we actually put our hands to that we are gifted at and anointed in doing?”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Not to say that we’re like God’s gift to marriage bloggers, but—

Selena:
Right…

Ryan:
We’ve always wanted our relationship to be used—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
For God’s glory. And we dated for four years. Selena, I think you mentioned earlier…

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
We dated for four years, two in high school, two in college. And all throughout that time, we even wanted our relationship to be used somehow for God’s glory. And so, I just felt the Holy Spirit—It wasn’t an audible voice or anything, but just this impression—

Selena:
Him prompting, yeah.

Ryan:
Like, “Hey, you can use your relationship, your marriage, to point people to Jesus, to point people to me.”

Selena:
Mm-hm, mm-hm!

Ryan:
It’s just God was impressing on my heart. So, I just started kind of brainstorming and kind of behind the scenes thinking about what that might look like, because I’m a web developer and had worked with some authors in the past and some different people who had blogged in the past, I kind of knew what that would require. So, I put together a little, informal business pitch, I think, to Selena. [Selena giggles] And I think in October of 2013 or 2012…

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
I approached her and said, “Hey, crazy idea! It’s going to take a lot of work and it’s going to be brutal at times to share honestly, but I think God’s asking us to start this marriage blog.”

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And obviously, you can’t do a marriage blog unless your wife had bought into it. [Both laugh] And so…

Selena:
A little caveat there!

Ryan:
You took some time to think about it, right?

[00:10:00]
Selena:
Yeah! Not— I mean, yeah, a little bit. I was kind of entrenched in my career or whatever. But yeah! No, we thought about it, prayed about it, and it seemed like the right next step. And we kind of just jumped off. And I think I thought of the name, I’m just going to put that out there…

Ryan:
I’ll give you the name.

Selena:
I did think of the name. [Both laugh]

Ryan:
She’s the genius! I’m just the worker bee.

Selena:
[Chuckling] You’re just the marketing guy.

Ryan:
[Chuckling] I’m just the worker bee, and she’s the idea person.

Selena:
No… But a lot of people ask, “Why the name, ‘Fierce Marriage’?” And we believe that it takes a fierce tenacity to never give up and refuses to never give in! But that fierceness really comes from Jesus, and He is the source of our ability to remain resolved with each other.

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
And He keeps our hearts soft, you know?

Ryan:
Yeah, and it actually goes back to one of those reasons why we thought it would be useful to start the ministry when I was just quietly kind of in the office. At the time, we were nine years married.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And so, we had seen a lot of marriage in our own experience. But we had also seen a lot of our friends get married in that time, get engaged, get married, and in some cases get divorced.

Selena:
And remarried.

Ryan:
And in a few cases, get remarried and divorced again.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And I was just thinking, “Why are we still together, 1—”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
“And, 2, why are we…”

Selena:
Still happily together?

Ryan:
[Chuckle] Happily married, yeah.

Selena:
[Chuckles] Like, being together and…

Ryan:
And we quickly came to the conclusion that it’s only by God’s grace…

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And it’s only through the power of the Gospel. Man, there’s been countless times where, I think, without Jesus, we would have gotten divorced or would have just given up.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Which would have led to divorce. And so, when we have the name Fierce Marriage, that’s what I think of.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Whenever I talk about it or even just type it out, is that, man, marriage is not easy!

Selena:
Mm-mm!

Ryan:
It’s amazing! I don’t want to be the voice for marriage that just talks about how hard it is all the time, and how to just get through it.

Selena:
But the reality of it is, it is a hard thing to—

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
To live and be and exist and intertwin your soul and your life with someone.

Ryan:
Everything worthwhile is hard.

Selena:
Mm-hm. It takes time.

Ryan:
And marriage is no exception.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
It takes a lot of fierce tenacity to [Selena giggles] never give up and never give in. And—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
But you know what? It’s amazing because of that. And God designed it as a covenant for that reason!

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Because there is goodness in His promise.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
It’s not easy, but it’s good! The name “Fierce” is just kind of our nod to that idea that it takes a lot of tenacity to make a marriage work.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And more than that, it takes an unwavering reliance on Christ.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And commitment to the Gospel.

Selena:
Which, I think, working together, that’s kind of been… [Both laugh] a hard thing and—

Ryan:
Makes me rely on Christ! [Laughs]

Selena:
[Laughing] Yeah. It’s been a favorite part because I feel like—

Ryan:
Which is— Sorry. The reason you bring that up is that’s one of the main questions we get from readers.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Is, “What’s it like working together?”

Selena:
Yeah. Yeah, working together, it’s great to be able to just share what God is teaching you, essentially, and being able to spend time with Him. And I love sharing what God does in my heart and my life right now! I feel like my time’s a bit limited with having some little ones, but they’re kind of our first ministry. And so, they’re the priority, and they kind of trump you guys sometimes. [Chuckles] Sorry about that! But we’re—

Ryan:
You’re not sorry about that! [Laughs]

Selena:
[Laughs] Okay. Well… Yeah!

Ryan:
And that’s okay. I think that’s right.

Selena:
Yeah! God—

Ryan:
And so, I’ve learned to be very tactful and not hound you on deadlines and things.

Selena:
Yeah. But I mean, it’s been a learning process!

Ryan:
Yep.

Selena:
And there’s been some tough communication that’s had to happen [Chuckles] and some tough conversations, and identifying idols or identifying fears, maybe, that are not rooted in Christ, or— And there shouldn’t be any fear in Christ. But things that are just not rooted in the right motivations. And so, I think those are probably our least favorite parts, when we have to kind of show our ugly and just blegh! You know?

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
You know? Like, okay, this is not…

Ryan:
Well, yeah. Of course, when you’re married to somebody…

Selena:
You see all of their weaknesses.

Ryan:
And they have, whether they know it or not—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
This ability to push these big red buttons in you!

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And I have way of doing that with Selena. [Chuckles] I think, especially when it comes time to get a blog post written or finish writing the devotional. And I’m trying so hard to ask, [Weakly] “Hey, are-are you done with that? Is that—?” [Selena laughs] “Is that almost ready?”

Selena:
[Disgruntled and angry sounding voice] “Nooooooo! Go away!”

Ryan:
[Mimics her voice] “Leave me alone!” [Selena laughs and both resume normal voices] And then I just get… [Ryan chuckles] And so, we’ve—

Selena:
Just being real here. [Laughs]

Ryan:
That’s one of my least favorite things, is treading that line!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Selena’s super sweet about it 99%– [Selena laughs] Well, nah, 97% of the time. [Both laugh]

Selena:
[Laughing] 97? Just 97.

Ryan:
But I just don’t like having to dance that line because mixing family with work is not very clear cut all the time.

Selena:
Yeah…

Ryan:
However, I love that I get to work from home! So, Fierce Marriage is almost my full-time job.

[00:15:05]
Selena:
Yeah, yeah!

Ryan:
Yeah, so I love being able to be home and working in the home office. I know some people, it’s not for them. For me, I love it when my girls interrupt me, as long as I’m not on a conference call [Selena laughs] or I’m recording a podcast. [Both laugh] Which, I’m sure they’ll make a cameo appearance on one of these episodes.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And they have the sweetest little voices. But yeah, that’s my favorite part! What’s your favorite part about working with me? Just how awesome I am, or…?

Selena:
It’s just so many… so many things to choose from. [Snicker] Um, no…

Ryan:
Sometimes she asks me to work in my underpants.

Selena:
[Laughing] I do not!

Ryan:
This is a cry for help.

Selena:
[Laughing] No… [Both laugh] You’re just my best friend, so it’s just really fun to do things with you and to do… eternal things with you.

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
Like, to do ministry and to share Jesus, and I just…

Ryan:
[Sigh] You’re so profound.

Selena:
[Snicker] You help me see things in a new way. You’re very aware of things. I think I think too much, and I get in my own head, and you’re very good at bringing context and life and the background to what I’m trying to say. And you hear me and you’re able to help me communicate… better, I think.

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
So, I really like working with you!

Ryan:
Well, that road is definitely a two-way road. I know there’s many times when I’m struggling for clarity and I will just come downstairs and you’ll bring a lot of clarity. So, it definitely goes two ways. And that’s, I think— I’m going to change my favorite part.

Selena:
[Giggles] You can do that.

Ryan:
Well, my favorite part, I think, is seeing how God allows us and has designed us to compliment each other, in that you’re strong in ways that I’m pretty weak! [Both chuckle] And I think…

Selena:
Right back at’cha!

Ryan:
Yeah. So, that’s been so fun to see!

Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
And it’s really fun because, when you’re obviously writing and thinking and talking about marriage all the time [Selena chuckles], I mean literally all the time. [Selena chuckles] For the last five years… It’s ridiculous. [Both laugh] And so, it makes you very astute to what God wants and is doing in your own marriage.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
It also, the flip side to that, the downside, is that at first it felt like every moment was bloggable! [Selena laughs] Like, we couldn’t have…

Selena:
We could threaten, [Annoyed tone] “I’m going to blog about this!” [Resumes normal voice]

Ryan:
[Laughing] Yeah! … Anyway. We couldn’t have a fight without feeling like…

Selena:
“Mr. Perfect!” [Snickers]

Ryan:
[Snickers] We couldn’t have a fight without feeling like one of us was going to use it as an example in a blog, and so we kind of hand to start having really transparent conversations.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Obviously, we would never write anything that…

Selena:
Is hurtful!

Ryan:
Was hurtful.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
But when you’re in a moment, you don’t want to think about how it’s going to be blogged about. You just want to deal with it.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
So, that’s a little bit about us! I’m sure there’s more we could share. But that’s what—

Selena:
I’m sure there’s more we will share!

Ryan:
Yeah, exactly! Like we said early on, this episode’s not like many…

Selena:
It’s… unique.

Ryan:
Not like the others! It’s going to be a bit of the anomaly. But normally when we talk about a discussion, whether it’s intimacy or budgeting or communication, whatever the topic is, we would have some sort of challenge to apply that in your personal life! But for this one, we’re just going to use kind of a more general challenge.

Selena:
Yeah! ‘Cause I think it’s important to find out, if you don’t ask yourself already, but getting a pulse on where you’re at, like where your marriage is at in terms of where Jesus is at in there.

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
And when we spent time in California, I spent about four years volunteering in Young Life, and had a wonderful, amazing time! Young Life is a ministry. If you don’t know about it, I’m sure you do, but if you don’t, it’s typically a high school ministry; they also have college and junior high. It’s basically ministering to kids who basically wouldn’t step foot in the doorway of a church. And so, it’s a real outreach. It’s wonderful, and God is so big and good! But I do remember one of the questions we would ask kids at camp, after we’ve spent some time with them, built relationship with them, kind of earned that right to be heard by them, I would ask them, just to start the conversation, “If your life was a car,” so in this case, if your marriage was a car, “where would Jesus be at?” Would He be in the driver seat?

Ryan:
Which, by the way, when you shared this with me before we recorded, I was like, “That’s going to be a little too high schoolish,” but—

Selena:
It’s a good analogy! [Laughs]

Ryan:
But no, It’s very good. I mean, if you get past—

Selena:
Just getting a pulse!

Ryan:
That part—

Selena:
Yeah, yeah. It’s just a reference point of thinking, “Okay. Where do we feel like God is in our marriage right now?” I mean, maybe one of you is a believer and one of you isn’t, and what does that look like? And/or maybe both of you are just coming back to Jesus, maybe it’s been kind of a weird road, or maybe some of you are just in the enthralls of it all, and just like, “God is driving our car.” [Giggles] “He is running our lives, and this is great.” You know, I had kids say He was in the backseat, like “He’s in the car. I got Jesus kind of as my back-up. But…”

[00:20:01]
Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
“I don’t really have Jesus. I don’t know Him, right? He’s not with me.” And I’m having conversations and a relationship with Him. And some people would say, “He’s outside the car,” “I don’t really know Jesus. I don’t know who He is or what He’s done for me and why He’s important. Why should I know Him?” So, I feel like these are just good questions to ask to find out where’s Jesus in thew midst of your marriage.

Ryan:
Right. Right! And can you hand me my Bible, by the way? [Paper rattling as Bible is passed to Ryan] Yeah, and so it’s just if He truly in control? And are you truly trusting Him? I’ve heard somebody speak in the, I don’t know when, but they’re talking about Jesus in the trunk, basically. [Selena snickers] He’s in the car, yeah.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
But He’s in the trunk. He’s just kind of like not important. You’re not listening to what He has to say. You’re not letting Him lead.

Selena:
It’s just kind of when you die, hopefully you go to Heaven ‘cause He’s in your heart, right? [Chuckles]

Ryan:
Right, right. And so, when we say, okay, so it’s very easy in a Christian marriage context to be like, “Yeah, yeah! Jesus. You need Jesus for your marriage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let’s talk about… sex!” ‘Cause that’s what we really—

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
‘Cause that’s what we really— We see everything, and this is, I believe, is honestly the highest purpose of our lives as Christians, but as married people who actually want to be disciples of Christ…

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Is that everything about marriage points to God’s glory and it points to the Gospel. And we’ve spent a lot of time exploring what that actually means, but I can tell you with certainty that every aspect of your marriage is meant to reflect the glory of God and point us to the Gospel.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
So, when you talk about sex, it’s not just, “Hey, how can we have a more adventurous sex life?”

Selena:
Fulfilling and [Chuckling] adventurous sexy life. Yeah.

Ryan:
Yeah, or fulfilling. Whatever. It’s, “How is sex a tool for God’s glory?” And our pleasure, yes, our enjoyment, yes, for all of God’s purposes, yes! Procreation and all that! But in our enjoyment, how is it reflecting the Gospel and the glory of God? And so that’s when we talk about and we say, “Hey, where is Jesus in your marriage?”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Is He truly central to ever aspect of it, and when you communicate and you’re having those frustrating moments, and you might be fighting and raising your voice and you’re tempted to say something you know you shouldn’t say, where is the Gospel in that?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
When you’re making that spending decision?

Selena:
Is it driving your response or…

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
Is your own heart and your own desires driving your response? I mean, it boils down in every situation, I feel like.

Ryan:
This verse that I read the other day [Page turning sounds]— You can hear these pages flipping. Here we go! So, it’s Proverbs 3:7. It’s, “Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord, and turn away from evil.” That essentially is, I think, every verse is [Snicker] pointing us to trust God in some way! But I love how succinct that is. Again, that’s Proverbs 3:7, “Be not wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord, and turn away from evil.” I think fearing the Lord is not just being afraid of Him, but it’s a deep reverence for Him. It’s knowing, really, you can’t know God and acknowledge God without having worship, adoration, and reverence be the result.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Right. It’s easy to not worship a god who isn’t actually God. But when you see God for who He is, and He’s actually the almighty, all-powerful creator of the universe, savior of mankind…

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Loves you infinitely, unconditionally, has died to reconcile humanity to Him, for those who are called, and I mean, when we see God as that, that is the fear of the Lord!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And so, that verse starts with, “be not wise in your own eyes.” What does that mean? That means I’m trusting God. I don’t have to be in the driver’s seat, right?

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
I can trust that Jesus knows what He’s doing, that God knows what He’s doing.

Selena:
I can trust His ways and what He outlines in the Bible!

Ryan:
Right! You can trust His word.

Selena:
I can trust His word, and even though it may not feel right and it may rub me wrong in how I want to respond, it’s when I trust Him and trust His word that I truly am putting the Gospel on display. I’m making it the center. And there is fruit and blessing in that!

Ryan:
Mm-hm! Yep!

Selena:
And growth.

Ryan:
That’s exactly it. And I don’t think it’s coincidental that this verse starts with, “be not wise in your own eyes.”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
It says, “fear the Lord,” which that’s central to it. And then, it sandwiches it with, “turn away from evil.”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
So, in marriage, that’s what repentance is, right? It’s turning away from that which is against the holiness of God.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
So, whether it’s your sex life, your finances, your communication, that’s what repentance is. Yes, I’m saved by grace.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
My eternal salvation is secure because of Jesus. I rest, rely, and bank on His covering!

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And testimony before the Father. [Both chuckle] However, I am, as a Christian, as a disciple of Christ, my life is one of—our lives are filled with repentance! These moments of saying, “God, that is not of you. I’m going to turn from that and I’m going to trust your way in all these various areas.”

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
So, that’s what we’ll be discussing throughout the life of this podcast!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
So far, it seems really fun!

Selena:
Yeah. [Chuckles]

Ryan:
So, [Chuckling] I hope we get to do this a lot! And we appreciate you guys working with us to work out some of the kinks. So actually, another fun thing: so, next up, a rapid-fire Q&A. [Selena snickers in the background] So, that’s a fun section where I’m going to actually ask Selena questions. She has no idea that they’re coming.

[00:25:06]
Selena:
Yeah. And then I’ll ask him next time probably.

Ryan:
And you have to answer them honestly and quickly.

Selena:
Honestly and [Laughs] quickly!

Ryan:
With no filter.

Selena:
Argh!

Ryan:
All right?

Selena:
Oh my God. Okay! [Intermission music begins and Selena laughs]

Ryan:
And that’s coming up! Stay tuned.

[Short musical intermission & advertisement]

Selena:
Now we’re going to talk about a cool thing that we really enjoy doing and getting every month. It’s called, “Datebox”! It is a themed box that you get in the mail. It’s really neat! They really curate each box for the theme, and it’s so fun! You have a booklet, which we’ve written one of them. There’s questions, there’s games, there’s— I think our favorite box was, of course, the coffee box. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
And it came with different coffees and ways to roast them!

Ryan:
And they’re raw beans.

Selena:
They’re raw beans, yes.

Ryan:
Green beans. Yeah, from different regions of the world, which is really cool!

Selena:
Yes! You got a grinder, which is one of those ones you can take camping or whatever!

Ryan:
It’s a hand burr grinder—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Which it’s definitely— I mean, if you were to buy one on Amazon, I don’t know how much it’d be, but it’s— Yeah, ridiculous.

Selena:
And you got a pour-over ceramic cup that you got to do all these things together. And so—

Ryan:
So, you roast the beans.

Selena:
Roast the beans.

Ryan:
You grind them up.

Selena:
Yup!

Ryan:
And then you had these little shot glasses that you would pour over and taste test them.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And you just take notes. It’s really fun! Especially if you’re into coffee, but—

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
The idea that you’re setting aside this time to do this thing that you would have never done otherwise…

Selena:
Right, right!

Ryan:
And they have all the instructions, and there’s a playlist in there.

Selena:
Right. They even had one that was kind of geared for camping, so they gave you a cribbage board or pick-up-sticks or something. They had all these different little games, some hot chocolate. You got some cool mugs.

Ryan:
There’s s’mores in there, too.

Selena:
S’mores!

Ryan:
Candles to roast the s’mores.

Selena:
Candles to roast the s’mores. Yeah! I think one of our favorite candles in our house was not from that package, but they had a massage one or something.

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
And big bath salts, oils…

Ryan:
So, this isn’t just a— Yeah.

Selena:
It’s, I mean, these boxes are full with way more than $33 worth of stuff. And it’s—

Ryan:
And they’re definitely sponsors, but it’s not just something that we pulled out of thin air. Brett, the founder, is a friend of ours.

Selena:
Yes. Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And I’ll be honest. Brett, if you’re listening to this, [Selena giggles] the first box was train wreck! [Selena laughs and Ryan chuckles quickly] It was a train wreck, and you’ll laugh about it. And I know Brett was pulling his hair out.

Selena:
Probably like this podcast… [Laughs]

Ryan:
But they tried to ship chicken…

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
They had it in these cool pack things, but man. Our’s was delayed by the postal service, [Selena laughs] and it showed up. It was rotten! And I know many, many people had the same experience.

Selena:
It was kind of funny though.

Ryan:
Anyway! We’ve seen them evolve. That was a year and a half ago.

Selena:
Yeah! They’re amazing!

Ryan:
Or almost two years ago. And now—

Selena:
They’re amazing.

Ryan:
They’re amazing.

Selena:
Yeah, Brett does an awesome job.

Ryan:
Anyway! They’re partners with us. They’ve been partners for a long time. We love telling people about it, because we think it helps them and Datebox is a good comp—

Selena:
Well, yeah, you do stuff you would never do.

Ryan:
Right!

Selena:
And we— They made ice cream.

Ryan:
Yep!

Selena:
Whole ice cream things.

Ryan:
We did make ice cream; that was awesome!

Selena:
Lots of games, lots of fun stuff.

Ryan:
Anyway. So, you can get a free one! That’s what we’re saying. You can get a free Datebox, [Selena snickers] because they’ve been really generous with us.

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
They gave us this awesome code. Just use “Fierce” when you check out, or just go to FierceMarriage.com/datebox. [Music fades out gradually] It will automatically apply the code! And that gives you credit towards a free box!

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
The thing is, is you have to pay $5 for shipping, because there are costs associated with these. But anyway! We think it’s a great deal.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And by doing that, you’re also helping us out.

Selena:
Yep!

Ryan:
Because, just our partnership with them. But yeah, we love it and we love talking about it. And so—

Selena:
It’s also a great gift, if you want to gift somebody a Datebox for a couple of months or something.

Ryan:
And you can also gift it, yes!

Selena:
It’s a great—

Ryan:
Yep.

Selena:
Great thing for married couples!

Ryan:
All right. So, yeah! Check out Datebox. Go to FierceMarriage.com/datebox! Now onto the rapid-fire Q&A.

Selena:
[Drum roll] Wooooo!

Ryan:
[Music begins] All right… All right! Are you ready for this, Selena?

Selena:
Yes, I guess. [Whines]

Ryan:
I have some questions here. [Music gradually fades out]

Selena:
Okay.

Ryan:
I’m going to start kind of tame.

Selena:
Okay. Thank you.

Ryan:
All right, if you could only read one author for the rest of your life, who would that person be?

Selena:
[Sighs] Proba—

Ryan:
One author.

Selena:
Probably Louisa May Alcott. I love her! And she just talks about Jesus and her stories.

Ryan:
Louisa May Alcott.

Selena:
Yeah, the author of Little Women, and Little Men and all of that. Yeah! I love her.

Ryan:
Really?

Selena:
I’ve just grown to love her this summer. Yeah!

Ryan:
So, like…

Selena:
I know! Probably C.S. Lewis would have a lot more variety. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Maybe not. I don’t know. I’m a Lewis fan.

Selena:
That’s my current answer.

Ryan:
Okay!

Selena:
Okay.

Ryan:
I thought you’d say, like, Isaac Asimov or something like that. If you’re a Sci-Fi buff, [Fades to a gradual whisper] you know who I’m talking about!

Selena:
[Whispers] I have no idea…

Ryan:
[Resumes normal volume] I’m not a Sci-Fi buff, so… [Selena giggles] If you’re a buff, you know that I’m not one by saying his name… [Selena laughs] Anyway, okay. So, that was the first question. Okay! If you were stuck in an elevator, who would you want to be stuck with? And you can’t say me, and you can’t say Jesus.

Selena:
[Laughing] Aw, dang it! [Both laugh] [Inhales deeply] Oh, man! Who have I always wanted to talk to? Anybody in time? Like, no…?

Ryan:
Yeah, there’s no restriction on that.

Selena:
Um, I would probably have to say…

Ryan:
Quickly! Time is running out!

Selena:
I knowww. Gah. [Ryan laughs] This is so hard! [Selena laughs]

[00:30:01]
Ryan:
Louisa May Alcott!

Selena:
No! [Both laugh] I would be reading her books! I would know her more. No… Mary, probably. Jesus’ mother, because I would—

Ryan:
Oh, wow! Nice!

Selena:
As a mom, I would be questioning— [Chuckles] You know, you see all those memes that are like, “Get in the bathtub,” to Jesus.

Ryan:
How did you get him to go to sleep?

Selena:
[Laughing] Yeah. How did you—How did he—

Ryan:
Did he take a paci? [Both laugh]

Selena:
And He never sinned, so apparently, He never disobeyed. I want to know [Laughing] what that was like! No.

Ryan:
Yeah, maybe it was the whole, part—

Selena:
The Holy Spirit, like… Whole God.

Ryan:
Fully God thing?

Selena:
Yeah! [Laughs] So, yeah, I—

Ryan:
But He’s also fully man, so…

Selena:
I would have a lot to talk about in that elevator, so…

Ryan:
We could fill the whole podcast with that question alone.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Is, “How did Jesus not sin?”

Selena:
Yeah. Okay!

Ryan:
All right! This is the last one. Okay, what’s the—This is a little bit different for you, and I think you’re going to have a hard time answering it. But what is the naughtiest thing you’ve ever done? And that word, “naughty,” is so weird to say. But…

Selena:
Umm… I think—Well, I didn’t— [Exhales a sigh] Okay—

Ryan:
As a kid and as an adult. And I’m not—

Selena:
As a teenager, I think, I didn’t really know it wasn’t right, but we went out with friends from our church youth group. We went to the mountain. It was winter! Kind of fell in a river a little bit. Not hard! Like—

Ryan:
And smoked doobies all night long. [Laughs]

Selena:
Nooo! I’ve never done that! [Ryan laughs] I’m not like you. I’ve never done that.

Ryan:
Uhh…

Selena:
Stop!

Ryan:
You don’t even know me. [Both laugh]

Selena:
No. I went out with a bunch of friends from our youth group, went to the mountain. Was gone all day. Went to a friend’s house. We just hung out. And, I mean, we had cellphones at this time, but it wasn’t texting. It was calling! And so, I don’t know! It was just a really late night! I think it was Saturday. I didn’t get home until, like, two or three in the morning, and I didn’t call my mom because I didn’t want to wake her up. Well, that was a bad idea, obviously! [Laughs] I get to my door, and the door opens. And of course, my friends just jet off, and I’m like, “Oh, great!” [Snickers] “I’m in so much trouble!” And I just was not thinking about it.

Ryan:
So, your mom was at home just stewing.

Selena:
Just crying, and probably very worried and all of the things.

Ryan:
Was she sitting in a dark room in the chair with the lights off?

Selena:
[Snickers] No.

Ryan:
Like in the movies?

Selena:
[Laughing] There was a lamp on, I think.

Ryan:
[In a deep monotone] “Where have you been?”

Selena:
No. So, I think that was probably the naughtiest thing I did…

Ryan:
So, what was your punishment?

Selena:
… Nothing. She was disappointed!

Ryan:
Oh, come on!

Selena:
I didn’t— I didn’t get in trouble!

Ryan:
You were such a goody-two-shoes!

Selena:
She just was like, “You need to just call me next time.”

Ryan:
[Laughing] What? That is the lamest naughty story…

Selena:
That’ll be the question— Okay! [Chuckles] I don’t know! I— I— I’m very honest! [Laughs]

Ryan:
We’re not going to relish in sin, but it’s like… I think this is just a perfect illustration of how good of a kid you were…

Selena:
You make me—!

Ryan:
Which is why I fell for you.

Selena:
You make me break rules, like… [Inhales] Park in places that make me uncomfortable. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Just yesterday, you were scolding me for not using my blinker. [Ryan snickers and Selena laughs]

Selena:
Or wearing your seat belt! See, this is—

Ryan:
And you were like, “Why aren’t you using your blinker?!” And I was like—

Selena:
The result—

Ryan:
And I was like, “’Cause I just don’t care enough.” [Both laugh]

Selena:
Okay. You—

Ryan:
There was no one behind me.

Selena:
This will be one of your questions, and you’ll… You can just be prepared, because you have lots of naughty things that you did as a teenager. [Both laugh] That I’ve been told.

Ryan:
Well, okay, in the grand scheme—

Selena:
Nope! It’s not your time to share! [Ryan laughs] Not in your time to share!

Ryan:
[Laughing] Okay.

Selena:
Moving on. [Chuckles]

Ryan:
All right, so— [Laughs]

Selena:
[Chuckling] That was our rapid-fire!

Ryan:
Come tune into the next podcast [Both chuckle] for more rapid-fire—

Selena:
Ryan’s naughties! [Laughs]

Ryan:
Question and answer. Yeah, you can— Well, you can’t copy my questions! So…

Selena:
I can on that one, ‘cause people are very curious, I’m sure.

Ryan:
No, they don’t care.

Selena:
Yes. You can relate!

Ryan:
They can just look up the police records. [Both laugh]

Selena:
[Laughing] Stop! He’s joking. So, this next part we’re going to talk about, ‘cause we probably should move on, this one is about letters and stories from you guys! So, this is the part where we get to hear… back from you.

Ryan:
So, a little while back, we started up this thing on our website, which we haven’t really talked about it, but it’s this ability to write a letter to your spouse, and it e-mails it directly to them.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And then—But some people, when they wrote their letter, gave us permission to share it!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
So, we just want to read that to you, so you can hear… kind of what God is doing in and through people, through Fierce Marriage.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
But also, just in general, because there’s power in telling our story.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And just our love for our spouses, but also what God is doing to lead us there. So, this letter is from Mandy to Greg. And go ahead, Sel.

Selena:
She says:
“I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate you. I could not ask for anyone more patient, more understanding, more trustworthy or more attentive. You give so unselfishly! I love all that you do for our family and for me. The little things mean so much. The compliments you give, how you make me smile and laugh endlessly, the things you do to help out in ever day life, how you teach the boys new things and give them your time and attention. You are amazing! I love you immensely.”

So, we see kind of a lot of…

Ryan:
She’s a very articulate writer!

Selena:
She is, yes! Very… Just a lot of adoration for her husband. And I know we kind of… I don’t know. We kind of see this stuff on social media, like, “Oh, you’re just the best!” And we just, you know, those kinds of things?

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
But I feel like these are true, and that the weight of these—

Ryan:
Well, there’s nothing… to be gained from it, other than just telling.

Selena:
Well, yeah! And the weight of these words are from every day. She’s not just picking out moments.

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
It’s like, “Okay. I do see this as themes in your life.”

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
“And I so appreciate, like, these are the things that really speak to me! And you’ve identified them, and you’re giving them freely to me, to our kids, to…”

[00:35:03]
Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
“To the world around you, which is such a blessing, that you have that capacity and that you are willing!” I think that willingness to go and give and delight in, those are big things!

Ryan:
Right. That’s awesome! Yeah, and I think just a word from a husband, I guess, who just read this, is, “Man, those words give life.”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
I know whenever Selena tells me that she appreciates what I do, which is pretty often, and we can joke about how it’s not, but honestly, it is pretty often. And she’ll ask our daughters to do the same, and to say thank you. That’s like a shot in the arm! Makes me feel like superman, and I’m ready to do it all over again. [Selena giggles] Even if I just finished a horrible deadline or something. So, wives, just know that your words carry immense power in your husband’s ears and in their hearts, and God will use you to bolster his confidence. So, that’s cool! We’re going to do more letters like that!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Hopefully, that’s something that you enjoy hearing about. And this one was from a few months back, but if you want to share a letter of your own, or even a voicemail, we’ve got ways for you to do that. So, go to FierceMarriage.com/podcast. It’s FierceMarriage.com/podcast. And you’ll be able to go there and see a bunch of things! Of those things, you’ll be able to see a link to write and share a letter of your own!

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And it’ll send to your husband or your wife. And you can choose to or not to give us permission to read it. And we might pick that! Or you can leave a voicemail. You can call in. If you go to that page again, you’ll be able to find the phone number. Here it is if you’re in your car of something: 971-333-1120
. And we’re thinking about doing this thing where we have listeners call in and leave a voicemail with questions, with comments, with their stories, their testimonies, or really anything our listeners, like you, would like to share! And we will kind of sort through those and pick out the teachable moments and the encouraging moments and things.

Selena:
And it is a Google voice line, so…

Ryan:
Yeah. It’s—

Selena:
We can’t [Giggle] leave a personalized voicemail greeting. Otherwise, we totally would. So, just chat with Goo-glah. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Yeah, we call her “Goo-glah.”

Selena:
Goo-glah! [Laughs]

Ryan:
She’s probably of Eastern European decent is what I’m assuming.

Selena:
Yeah. She’s kind of annoying sometimes. She doesn’t always answer the questions.

Ryan:
She doesn’t have an accent. [Selena laughs] But, just by the name, you can…

Selena:
Goo-glah.

Ryan:
So, anytime we’re navigating GPS or anything like that, she’s the one that’s directing us.

Selena:
[Laughing] We call Goo-glah.

Ryan:
[Chuckle] Yeah, so just give us a call. The number: 971-333-1120
. Again, FierceMarriage.com/podcast. You’ll be able to find that. So, also on there, you will find we wrote a couple of books! And we just want to share those with you. We love hearing stories of how our work affects people. But that means that we have to tell people about what we’ve done. And we just released these two books. They’re called Husband in Pursuit and Wife in Pursuit, and together they make what we call the 31-Day Pursuit Challenge. And essentially, it’s 31 days of devotions where you’ll read a scripture and go through the scripture and kind of dissect it in the devotional part. And then there’s these application questions.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
There’s a prayer prompt. And there’s room to write—

Selena:
And the field notes. I like that.

Ryan:
Yeah! Well, there’s an area to write the questions’ answers—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And to write a prayer. And then there’s a pursuit challenge every day! And that’s where it has the, almost like if you’ve heard of The Love Dare, it’s a lot like that, where we’ll say, “Hey, do this thing in the name of pursuing your spouse.”

Selena:
Yeah… Mm-hm. And there’s promptings for the big dos.

Ryan:
Yep! Yeah, and there’s little gauges and icons to help you understand how much time it’s going to take.

Selena:
Or how much money. Right.

Ryan:
Or how much money, if any.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Very few of them require money. But yeah! Just to love each other in really unconventional ways!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
We’re excited about it! It’s been out for a few weeks, and the response has been great! We would love for you to check that out.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
And hopefully we’ll get some stories out of that. Yeah! So, just go to 31DayPursuit.com. That’s 3-1-day-pursuit-dot-com. And we have all the information you need to learn about those books there! Other than that, I think… as regarding this podcast, if you guys are enjoying this, we’d love it if you told us and you take 30 seconds to subscribe, A, to our podcast on whatever method you use to consume your podcast, whether it’s iTunes or otherwise, or the podcasting app on your iPhone or Google-whatever—

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Just subscribe to it! And take a second to leave a review. It actually takes about 30 seconds. If you enjoyed this, that would really help us out!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Just namely because people don’t know if no one… talks about it.

Selena:
No one tells them, yeah! And if you—

Ryan:
And again—

Selena:
Yeah. If you really liked it, we’re excited about this medium, again, to be able to be a lot more relational. And so, if you did enjoy it, tell somebody about it! I know that it’s easy to tell people about the blog, but also, I feel like we are able to share more quickly, I feel like.

Ryan:
And a lot of people spend time in their car, or—

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Or working out—

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
Or working around the house—

Selena:
Mm-hm!

[00:40:00]
Ryan:
And this is just such a medium that you don’t have to be in front of a computer.

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
You can just have your phone in your pocket, and your headphones in your ears.

Selena:
You can listen. Yeah!

Ryan:
Or plugged into your car radio.

Selena:
Yeah, you can listen and be encouraged, and be challenged and prayed for, even!

Ryan:
So, take some time, please, and leave a review and tell somebody.

Selena:
Yeah, we appreciate it.

Ryan:
We would really appreciate it.

Selena:
So grateful!

Ryan:
If you didn’t enjoy it, we’re sorry.

Selena:
Maybe come back in a month or two. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Maybe give us our chance to get better at it. [Chuckles] And hopefully we’ll be better by the time you come back. But yeah, other than that, in the future we plan on talking about lots of these topics and things. We hopefully have some people that we are interviewing. We’ll do some voicemails that we’ll play. So, there’s a lot to be had by subscribing. Anyway. That’s the end of that.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
I’ll stop plugging now. [Laughs]

Selena:
So, right now we’re just going to take a minute to pray for your guys! And just pray for the marriages that are out there and that are a part of this community.

God, thank You so much for this time and for this medium. Thank You that Your Spirit is with us all. I pray that You would continue to open our eyes and open our hearts to Your ways, God. And keep our hearts soft and responding to You and responding to how You would have us respond to our spouses, God. And I just pray for a continued refocus of our hearts on You and on the Gospel, and what You have done through Jesus, and how that affects us. Help us to draw those lines clearly, God, to how communication is affected by the Gospel, how our intimacy and sex is affected by the Gospel. How we spend our money is affected by the Gospel! By how we operate as a family, God. Help us to figure out and learn and glean and take on all the wisdom that you would have for us in terms of Your word and in the Gospel. And help us, Ryan and Selena, to be good stewards of this platform and to constantly bring You to the forefront, and to use the testimony You’ve given us, Father, to show and reflect You and Your love for us that we’ve experienced in so many rich ways. I pray for all the marriages that are really, truly going through some hard times right now, that You would make Your presence known to them, that they would draw closer to You through whatever circumstances they are facing. I pray that You would put people and community in their lives that would lovingly speak truth, and that would just sit and be if that is what needs. And pray with them, and just be a light to them. Thank You, God, for all that You’re doing in and through Fierce Marriage. Continue to grow it as You are the Grower. God, help us to water and help us to plant. But God, ultimately, You are the Grower and we just trust You with our hearts and our lives… In Jesus name—

Ryan:
Amen!

Selena:
Amen.

Ryan:
All right, well that’s a wrap, guys! Our first podcast is [In a deep voice] “in the can.” [Selena laughs] As they say… [Resumes normal voice]

Selena:
[Laughing] In the can.

Ryan:
And I’m working on my radio voice, so… Maybe not. [Selena laughs] I’m getting the look. [Both laugh] For show notes, links, to leave stories and letters and everything else—

Selena:
Yeah. Mm-hm…

Ryan:
Go to FierceMarriage.com/podcast.

Selena:
Ye-ah!

Ryan:
If you’re listening, please do consider writing in or calling in. Write a letter or call in. We’d love to hear your questions and thoughts! Also, we would feel very loved if you subscribed and left a rating, once more! And a comment, a sentence or two. Also, you can find us on the big socials!

Selena:
Oh, yeah!

Ryan:
Facebook, Instagram, the YouTubes!

Selena:
[Laughing] The YouTubes?

Ryan:
MySpace.

Selena:
Wait—

Ryan:
Is all the rage.

Selena:
[Laughing] Is not.

Ryan:
It’s going to be the thing!

Selena:
Nope.

Ryan:
We are not on SnapChat, so don’t look there. I’m not—

Selena:
Yeah. Sorry guys! We just have no capacity for that. [Laughs]

Ryan:
I’m not 11 years old. All right?

Selena:
Oop!

Ryan:
“Oh, snap!”

Selena:
Nope, nope, nope, nope. [Ryan laughs] Take that back. [Selena laughs]

Ryan:
Okay, I am ill-informed about SnapChat, so if you’re a user and you enjoy it, then that’s—

Selena:
That’s great.

Ryan:
More power to ya.

Selena:
[Laughs] We just don’t have the capacity for that right now.

Ryan:
Anyway! Facebook, Instagram, the YouTubes, and FierceMarriage.com/podcast.

Selena:
Next time!

Ryan:
Next time!

Selena:
On Fierce Marriage, oh man, we’re going to jump in! We’re going to talk about intimacy. Talking about sex, [Ryan laughs] just managing and communicating expectations. We’ve had a lot of people write to us about past abuse and maybe how to handle that. Pornography and addictions.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And above all, a healthy and Godly, Biblical perspective and approach on intimacy. So, that is next time!

Ryan:
Yeah, so specifically speaking, we’ll drill down into a better topic—

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
‘Cause that’s pretty broad, and we’ll talk about intimacy more than once.

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
So, we have a list of questions. But yeah, go to that page: FierceMarriage.com/podcast. If you have any questions about intimacy, leave those there!

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And we will get them and review them. Other than that…

Selena:
Thank you, guys!

Ryan:
Stay fierce! [Exit music fades in]

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Love you guys! Thanks for listening, and…

Selena:
God bless!

[00:44:50]

Podcast ends.