• [00:18:52]
  • Scripture references: 
    • Songs of Solomon 2:8-13

• [00:30:02]
  • Recommended Resource: 
    • Gospel Centered Marriage 

Ryan: Hey guys! Ryan here. Just a quick heads up. This episode is sensitive in nature, as with many of these episodes in our series on sex talks. You want to make sure that any young ears are not within earshot. So maybe listen another time or put some earphones in. Either way, we hope you enjoy this episode. I just wanted to give you that quick warning before it starts. Enjoy.

Selena: Everyone wants a red hot or boiling passionate sex, right?

Ryan: Oh baby.

Selena: Not that it has to always be that way. But I think that’s kind of the desire, right?

Ryan: Yeah.

Selena: You don’t want just like not boiling sexy time.

Ryan: I think it’s safe to say that most healthy couples… and healthy is a big caveat in there because there could be a lot of reasons why you maybe feel like you don’t want to get close to your spouse at a given moment. But if you’re in a healthy place, I think it’s safe to say that we want to experience passionate intimacy with one another.

Selena: It’s a good desire

Ryan: That’s a good thing.

Selena: A healthy desire.

Ryan: You said this doesn’t have to be like that every time. But there’s a good balance and there’s a good appetite for it, I think, in healthy couples. And so to that end, we’ve been stricken by this idea. We had an interview I think last week with Gary Thomas and Debra Fileta, maybe two weeks ago, about their new book, “Married Sex.”

And one of the topics that we talked about and is discussed in their book is this idea of sexual simmering. And that was something that was new to us. As we heard Gary talk about that, and we process through in our own lives, we realized, “Man, this is a really cool concept, so let’s bring this to the podcast. Let’s expand on a little bit. Let’s explain it.” And that’s what we’re going to do today. So we will see you on the other side.

[00:01:44] <intro>

Selena: Welcome to the Fierce Marriage podcast where we believe that marriage takes a fierce tenacity that never gives up and refuses to give in.

Ryan: Here we’ll share openly and honestly about all things marriage—

Selena: Sex—

Ryan: Communication—

Selena: Finances—

Ryan: Priorities—

Selena: Purpose—

Ryan: And everything in between.

Selena: Laugh, ponder, and join in our candid, gospel-centered conversations. This is Fierce Marriage.

[00:02:17] <podcast begins>

Ryan: So as I mentioned, this interview with Gary Thomas and Debra Fileta continues to, I think, encourage us and encourage our listeners. Like I said, it was posted a few weeks back. Look I think two episodes prior to this one.

But as I was working through the extra content, because there’s a second session that we did, another part of the interview that we did with Gary and Debra, that is part of Gospel Centered Marriage, it’s our online learning ecosystem. And as they talk through it, I just continue to be encouraged by the language that they’re adding to this conversation and this idea of simmering, and what that could mean.

Selena: Hopefully, our conversation about simmering will enlighten you and encourage you. But more than that just kind of get you on a different path of approaching sex. They didn’t ask us to do this extra little piece.

Selena: No.

Ryan: But before we do that, as I always do, leave a rating and review. That helps us a ton. If you want to partner with us, just go to fiercemarriage.com/partner, and you’ll find some options there. We just ask you to do two things. You pray about it. And if God leads you, then you would respond to his leadership in that area.

Of course, we’ll continue doing the content regardless. It’s a joy to do this. We will continue doing this as long as the Lord allows it. And I’m so thankful that we get to do it and be on mission with other like-minded couples.

Selena: Amen.

Ryan: So sacred simmering was this article-

Selena: Yes, you can check it out on fiercemarriage.com/sacred-simmering. Actually, that’ll help you find it.

Ryan: Sweet. And that article is an excerpt from the book Gary offered. Like I said in the intro, and as we’re leading up to this, this was a profound concept for us. And I think it might be helpful at this point just to clearly define it. Because you might be hearing this and you’re like, “This is new to me.”

Selena: And be like, What is he saying? I don’t know what this means.”

Ryan: When I hear the word “simmering,” I think smoldering. Smoldering.

Selena: Smoldering.

Ryan: Smoldering.

Selena: I do not think when I heard the word simmering, I’m like, “Yeah, I’ve simmered a lot.” [both laughs] But not in this way. Right? I think a friend of ours had a word for the year was like to unsimmer something. Not in this form but just-

Ryan: Cool your jets.

Selena: Yeah, cool your jets basically.

Ryan: So simmering is this idea that you are… it’s easier to bring water to a boil if it’s already simmering as opposed to bringing ice-cold water up to a boil. It takes a lot more energy, a lot more time to go from ice cold to boiling. And if you keep a low-grade simmer, all you got to do is crank up the heat a little bit more and you get a full rolling boil, right? I like smoldering. I know smoldering is something that, you know, guys will do is when they’re trying to look-

Selena: It’s twofold.

Ryan: But I like smoldering. If you think about an actual fire, you know, we have [00:05:00] little kind of fire pit in our backyard. And sometimes when I’m working in the backyard, I’ll start kind of a fire. And it’ll just burn kind of for two or three hours, and I just will add wood to it. And it’s really I like how it smells. I like that it’s warm, on a cool fall day you can go up more on your hands.

And sometimes the coals will just begin to smolder. There’s not a flame but there are hot coals there. It’s still hot, but it’s not fully on fire. And I’ll just add a little bit of wood to it and it’ll burst into flames. And I love that.

This analogy—you know how I love analogies—I always tell our girls is what are the three ingredients that fire requires? You need fuel, you need heat or energy, and you need oxygen. So if you think about this is… we’re adding energy to the boiling pot, or to the fire, we’re consistently investing energy into it to keep it at this level of heat, to keep the heat going. And that takes energy.

If you stop adding energy, if you stop adding fuel, then that energy will eventually dissipate. But we have to continue adding energy by way of fuel and that will create more heat.

And then sometimes the oxygen could be the conversations around it. You’re actually talking about this stuff, and it brings life to it. And then when you want to bring it to a full-blown flame, then you just would throw the logs on the fire, rekindling on there and then just enjoy the heat.

Selena: Yes, yes.

Ryan: So we’ll stick with the simmering analogy. I like the smoldering one to make a quick contrast.

Selena: Gary kind of starts this article a little bit about talking, you know, young… not young. I’d say in their 30s or 40s Christian couples in this 21st-century era that we find ourselves in, it feels like there’s not a lot of time and energy left over to kind of enjoy sex. And I think that’s one of the pieces that they really hone in on in their book, because just where we find ourselves.

When he mentions, you know, hotel sex, he says there’s just two main reasons. And like what Ryan said, is that time and energy. It’s harder to kind of turn on that switch, that sexual switch of-

Ryan: Wait, what do you mean hotel sex?

Selena: Oh, sorry.

Ryan: What was he talking about then?

Selena: He was saying… or vacation sex. I think it’s more of like-

Ryan: Special in some way.

Selena: Yeah, there’s no distractions, you have more time and energy, ideally, to be able to just kind of engage and be together and get to that boiling point. You have more time, I guess.

Ryan: That’s funny, because anytime we go on a vacation, I feel that you feel that I have expectations for the hotel sexual experience. Like it’s going to be everything-

Selena: Not family vacations. That’s just a- [laughs]

Ryan: Oh, no. Yeah. But when we do retreats and things. That’s a different dynamic for me, because I feel your expectation and the weight that puts on you. And I’m like, “How do I defuse this, but also take advantage of this opportunity that we have?” [both laughs]

Selena: Kind of a [inaudible] sex. We’re all going to come around at some point to just kind of recognize the opportunity. But he does talk about that. You know that you have a couple that has a few kids. And there’s always kind of these windows. I think we recognize that as a couple like, Hey, there’s this window of time that we could engage in our sexual activities as a married couple.

And it’s difficult because one may be in the mood, one may not or you may only have that window and things just aren’t moving along that quickly. So how do we-

Ryan: I need at least 30 minutes of snuggling before Selena is… It’s not just “Bring me to a boil, Selena. I need some snuggles.”

Selena: So this idea of simmering is, like he said, he said his amateur definition is just letting sexual tension kind of build without bringing it to a boil. It’s the fore foreplay, right? It’s not foreplay. It’s fore foreplay. So pre foreplay, if that makes sense.

Ryan: So I want to contrast this with, I think, a popular notion within Christian circles. I see this on different marriage ministries and things. And I think it’s well-intentioned, so I don’t want to read intentions into it. But it’s this idea that everything in your relationship is foreplay.

Selena: That sounds tiring.

Ryan: I’m contracting this. So what that does is that means that the ultimate experience for a married couple is to have sex together. That’s what that is saying. That when I do the dishes, it’s foreplay. When I am nice to you, it’s foreplay. When I send you a text, it’s foreplay. Whatever the thing is, it’s all foreplay. I don’t think that’s the case. I think there’s more to married couples’ life than just everything leading into the bedroom, and every motive being fueled by a desire for sex.

Selena: Absolutely. Well, because love is not just sex.

Ryan: I don’t think simmering is that though. I think simmering is something very different that could seem like what I just described. But simmering is more [00:10:00] of a very clear anticipation. And we see this in the Bible. We’re going to read some of Songs of Solomon.

Selena: It’s clear and anticipating for like the date that you guys have set that aside. So I think that yes, you could argue that all acts of service are like foreplay. But again I don’t see that because then it just becomes manipulation.

Ryan: I think if there’s love, and love leads to deeper expressions of love, usually you can-

Selena: You can’t label everything foreplay. What makes this different is that it’s on those days you are basically starting the sexual activity early, like right from the get-go as far as and what does that look like? It’s not like you’re just, “Okay, I’m out of bed. Let’s do it.” It’s identifying that, okay… they have a good example of the difference between foreplay and simmering. Because there is a difference.

He gives an example of a couple that has like four young children, their sex life took a nosedive, and they’re both sad and frustrated about it. They weren’t judging each other, but they’re just kind of disappointed at where they were. They were always feeling tired and just kind of overwhelmed. And when the moment would arise or the opportunity is just like maybe one of them was ready, but the other wasn’t. And it’s just hard to not be distracted by the fact that this window could close at any moment.

Ryan: We’ve all been there. Especially if we have young kids, you’ve all known, okay, it’s time for us to connect.

Selena: And here you are like sitting in the middle of a thousand pieces of laundry and he’s coming in from like doing work outside or something. It feels so forced sometimes.

Ryan: [inaudible] one of those moments of the night where I was just like… night times are like the worst time-

Selena: It’s difficult.

Ryan: ..because we’re so tired-

Selena: Right now in this season, yes.

Selena: …and all day long I’m simmering. [both chuckles] And then it’s time to crank up to a boil and it’s like there’s just no more feel-

Selena: There is no more energy.

Ryan: I crank it up to boil and the fire goes out. [Selena laughs] So I can definitely relate with Erica and her husband, Timothy. These are the example Gary gave. So then what? So they had this scenario.

Selena: Right. So then the counselor suggested planning kind of their times of sexual activity, which is not a new idea, right? We’re all like, “Oh, yeah.” But they thought that was horrible, which I would agree with. She’s like, “The last thing I need is another task on my to do list.” Erica is complaining and she says, “That only makes things worse.”

But the key here is, and this is what we’re trying to lead up to, is that when the counselor explained the concept of simmering sex… I just want to read this. It says that she urged them to wed that concept of simmering sex with planned sex. She said, “Make the entire day a routine of getting ready for sex. And the Call of Duty, quote-unquote, that Erica feared became a hot appointment she didn’t want to miss.”

Ryan: Interesting. So my initial reaction to this is, okay, I get the idea. But can you really live an entire day of every week just in prep for sex? Is it all-consuming or is it more low grade than that? He, in the example, talks about maybe the shower routine changed or she’s wearing different clothing that prepares her heart. I don’t know what that-

Selena: Clearly you haven’t finished the entire thing, have you?

Ryan: I read it. I’m trying not to read it verbatim here on the podcast.

Selena: No, some examples of this are, you know, you have assuming that you’ve talked about and had a conversation about designating a day or two during the week of when that’s going to be your sex day, basically, or you’re going to have sex on those days.

Ryan: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Sexday, Friday, [Selena laughs] Saturday, Sexday, Monday, Tuesday. [Ryan laughs]

Selena: Anyways.

Ryan: Whatever you got to do.

Selena: Just planning their day and making it more sensual is what his words were. She thought about, you know, example of this, it might be that she’s thinking about what she’s going to wear during that day underneath her clothes and on the outside. Maybe you’re sharing some text messages with each other and kind of just like talking to each other in a sexy way. I don’t know if I want to give the examples because like he’s saying-

Ryan: I’ll jump in.

Selena: Okay.

Ryan: Because I feel like there’s an analogy here in terms of situational awareness. So our good friends John and ‘Mrs. Poet’ Lovell. I don’t know if the Her name is out there yet. But anyway, they do The Warrior Poet Society. The point is he talked about, you know, situational awareness, and he does all kinds of videos on it. And sometimes you get to be completely oblivious to your surroundings. You go into a 7-Eleven and you won’t even realize it if somebody is holding up the register, right?

Selena: Sure.

Ryan: Whereas if you’re on kind of yellow alert, which is you’re not paranoid, but you’re looking around paying attention to what’s around you. This actually helped me in my own walk with the Lord. In that as I’m praying, I’m thinking, “Holy Spirit, how are you calling me to minister to even strangers on the side of the road? Or “am I just even listening for your voice all day?” So in a similar way-

Selena: Are we having situational awareness about [00:15:00] our stuff and our love life? Absolutely.

Ryan: We can have this yellow awareness where you’re not paranoid, whatever the sexual equivalent of that is.

Selena: You’re alert. You’re alert.

Ryan: You’re thinking, “How can I just help my wife? What can I say to her that will continue the simmering process?”

Selena: And I think for a wife, maybe it’s just engaging in some of those… like it’s okay for me to think about my husband and to want him and to think I desire him. And that is good. And what does that look like?

Ryan: Oh, we endorse this activity. [both laughs]

Selena: So the example they gave was that, you know, the husband, Tim, would get home a little early to help with household duties. He took charge so that Erica wouldn’t have to make any decisions. Because he just identified that making lots of decisions are things that don’t enhance the sexual experience for her. So if he can alleviate that, then that was something that would really keep that simmering, keep the heat and the energy going, right?

Ryan: Right.

Selena: And so the need for her to kind of experience a momentary escape from decision making was very helpful. He identified with her that he had to keep a wide berth between her and all of those decision making tasks and whatnot. It took some time to kind of figure out what works and what was fun for them. Like getting her getting dressed, and thinking about what she’s wearing, and maybe some text messages again-

Ryan: It’s not only stoking the fire, but it’s removing things that could get in the way of it.

Selena: Right. Because I think-

Ryan: So he’s getting home early. Whereas on a normal Friday, before they had this intentionality about it, he would just get home and maybe expect dinner or that [inaudible].

Selena: I think we just get in this mode of like we’re so busy, we just got to get to the next thing, check, check, check, check, check. And it’s like, wow, we’re missing a whole day of being able to engage in that desiring of one another, engaging in, I think thinking about one another, and loving each other in that way and creating that heat, I guess, and creating that energy.

I don’t want to sound like New Agey. I’m just saying God has given us desires as husband and wife for each other. So why are we just running into the bedroom, doing the deed and coming out and trying to find the time when there’s so much space in between? I think it’s a recognition of the time and space that He’s given us. And sometimes in our minds, we can just become glossed over with our schedule, and we’re missing out on these moments throughout the day of where we can be loving towards one another.

Ryan: We’re not animals in this.

Selena: You talked about that, yeah.

Ryan: I think we’re not just physical beings.

Selena: And sex is not just physical.

Ryan: Yes. We have this emotional piece to it. There’s a spiritual piece. There’s a relational piece. And yes, there’s a physical piece. But you think of… I wanna be careful how I word this. But when mating happens in the wild, it’s very abrupt. It’s just the act is over, the instinct is satisfied. It’s done. And the female is just like, “Okay, well, I guess that happened.” I watched a lot of animal shows growing up. So this was part of my childhood.

That’s not the human experience of sex is just, “Okay, the time is now let’s do it and be done with it, and we’re all kind of just…” There’s a build-up that is unique. And we see that in Scripture. And that’s why I want to get to is… I am asking this question as we’re talking about. Where in Scripture is this described, is it warranted, is it encouraged?

We have the whole book of Songs of Solomon. There are other places. But I want to read just this passage in Song of Solomon 2, starting in verse 8. “The voice of my beloved! Behold, he comes, leaping over the mountains, bounding over the hills. My beloved is like a gazelle or a young stag. Behold, there he stands behind our wall, gazing through the windows, looking through the lattice.

My beloved speaks and says to me: “Arise, my love, my beautiful one, and come away, for behold, the winter is past; the rain is over and gone. The flowers appear on the earth, the time of singing has come, and the voice of the turtledove is heard in our land. The fig tree ripens its figs, and the vines are in blossom; they give forth fragrance. Arise, my love, my beautiful one, and come away.” And it goes on.

Of course, we have to sift through some of the Old Testament language. Obviously, the analogies of fig trees and all that kind of stuff is kind of lost on us. There are two things happening here. There’s an anticipation, there’s this ongoing growth and maturation of the fruit-bearing plants and vines. [00:20:00] It’s happening.

And then there’s this culmination in this time of the ripening. And the ripening that’s the time for harvest. So there’s two things like I said. It’s an ongoing simmer if you will that’s happening in anticipation, the looking through the lattice, the calling one another, the anticipation of springtime. That’s happening in this passage.

There’s also a much more… I don’t know how to say. Explicit is not the right word. But it’s a much more physiological illusion here of the vines are in blossom. They give forth their fragrance. The fig tree ripens its figs. That basically is saying, I am ready now for you. Not only is this season coming, but I am ready.

Selena: And it takes time to get to those points of being ready. I think is a good identifier.

Ryan: Time and anticipation. And you could argue a certain level of health. In other words, marital understanding when it comes to this.

Selena: Because fig trees won’t produce figs if there’s not health. And so there won’t be growth and I guess, fruit.

Ryan: I mean, there’s not a whole bunch to this analogy. Pruning in terms of maintaining our vines and the healthy between-

Selena: The fox is out, right? And all of that conversation.

Ryan: Yeah, yeah. There’s a lot to be read into that… not read into it, but pulled out of it, I should say, when it comes to this topic of simmering. So it’s not unscriptural. It’s not unbiblical. In fact, the Bible is not silent on these things, especially in simmering.

There’s a distinct part of human nature that warrants this and encourages this. Because we’re not just physical. We’re not just like animals, like I said. We are multifaceted beings that can intentionally, you know-

Selena: We engage in relationships.

Ryan: Yeah. Interesting.

Selena: Again, on our last episode, we talked about even the spectrum of sex and we talked about modes, I think of, sex. And so some things can take a short amount of time, and some things may take longer. I think there’s nuances and things that you can’t anticipate. We cannot control the entire experience, right?

Ryan: Mm-hmm.

Selena: But what we can do is we can be intentional about how we’re approaching that moment. The Bible doesn’t read like, he just came over and he was like, “Hey, let’s go.” [both chuckles] There’s so much more poetry and richness.

Ryan: Poetry. And that’s telling. This is the genre that was used.

Selena: Absolutely.

Ryan: It’s a poetic genre. It’s not narrative. It’s not historical narrative. It’s not prophetic narrative. It’s not even proverbial wisdom. It’s poetry. Because when it comes to this area of our relationship, it’s more akin to poetry than it is akin to narrative. Sorry, I’m just imagining Song of Solomon as a narrative account. It loses-

Selena: It’s like do I [inaudible] reading something like a-

Ryan: “And the couple was naked, and then they put their clothes back on. And the end.”

Selena: I mean, God could have created it so much more… What’s the word? Like the animals? Like it’s just do and done. Like, it could have been very-

Ryan: Transactional and functional.

Selena: And it’s not. Our God created different senses, different ways, different reasons. And so how silly of us to short circuit the experience that God has intended and allowed us to engage in?

Ryan: So how can we simmer? Not us, not the Frederick’s. But as couples listening to this, what are some simmering ideas to get couples thinking?

Selena: I mean, like you said, I think it’s going to take some time. But I think if you can identify some of the hindrances to engaging in sex. I think in this article, he talks about how sometimes Erica being the parent and having to make all the decisions can be very fatiguing for her. And so if he can kind of serve her in that way. And that’s not for everybody.

He said, maybe your wife doesn’t mind making decisions and would be offended if you didn’t ask her opinion about what to bring home for dinner. And maybe kissing her kids goodnight puts her in the mood to connect with the father of those children.

He says the key is to figure out what turns your spouse on and what turns them off and then start to simmer accordingly. And so I think that just takes some time to… and probably some misses. Like, Ops, that didn’t go as planned, but some failures. But I think if we just continue to keep coming to the table, and saying, “Okay, what turns him on? What turns him off? How can I serve and love my spouse in this way, and how can we engage in this, [00:25:00] not just in the 30-minute window that we might have later in the day, or at night or whatever? But how can we engage in this that works for us, and it’s edifying to each other?

Ryan: So start by asking questions. Going to one another and saying, “What can I do?” And you can be this over husband, wife. You can actually ask these questions and begin this dialogue. Actually, stop and listen and ask more questions. Maybe set yourself a counter and say, “I’m not going to say any answers until I’ve asked at least five questions.” Seriously, that’s a viable tool, and it’s helpful for inner communication or interpersonal communication.

What can I do to make simmering happen? What gets your heart going? One of the things Debra Fileta talked about was arousing a woman’s heart is the first step in arousal, is arousing your heart and drawing it out of her and heightening her senses, her heart senses to her husband. And so you can ask those types of questions.

And this might sound overly mechanical, where I’m okay with mechanical because that’s the beginnings of healthier habits many times, is then begin to make a plan for how you’re going to execute that thing. In this example, we’ve shared they have a set day that’s going to be their simmer day. Now, does that mean that they only have sex on that Friday? No, it doesn’t mean that. It just means that that Friday is more of an event. And you might have maybe a practice run on Tuesday or something or whatever.

The point is, by having that set in stone, now you actually have something you can wrap your arms around and say, “Okay, this is the day.” And then gently remind one another that “Hey, I’m excited. I love you. I’m anticipating you. I’m peeking through the lattice, so to speak, the fruit to be had.” [both chuckles] And I’m excited for that.

And you have to do in a way that your spouse is going to feel loved. Because I can just picture that on our own… If I’m always like, hey, looking forward to tonight?” you sort of feel like, “Oh, great. What’s he expecting.”

Selena: Got put out. [both laughs]

Ryan: We’re going to have to put out. That’s something that I know is demoralizing for you. And so I have to be very ginger and like, “Hey, I love you and I am desirous of you.”

Selena: Again, we have to take the time to figure it out. Because sometimes, you know, what worked last week doesn’t work this week.

Ryan: Oh great! Oh, great! [both laughs]

Selena: No, I think I’m more consistent, I would like to believe.

Ryan: I think you can help each other in that don’t be such a moving target. Yes, there is a sense that the target is moving. But this takes two. And both of you can engage in the simmering process. If one of you is just simmering, that’s just a recipe for frustration.

Go back to last week’s episode, the modes of sex. That’s exactly what we talked about. If you’re expecting a passionate mode, and your spouse is completely not expecting anything, that’s going to create some problems. So ask questions, step one, make a plan to step into the simmering activities, execute faithful on that plan, and do that together. Do it together.

And then, here’s the final step, I’ll say, re-evaluate. After doing a couple of weeks of this, re-evaluate. “Hey, is this working? How can we make this work better? How can you feel more loved?” When I text you, that doesn’t really help at all. That just makes you have to look at your phone and you hate looking at your phone, you have a busy day, all this kind of stuff. Can I write you a note?

Selena: Yeah, leave me a note on the mirror in the morning or something.

Ryan: That’s up to you to brainstorm and think through this.

Selena: It’s a fun piece up to you.

Ryan: It is up to you. Yeah. And it is going to take investment. That’s the energy piece is you can’t expect the fire to burn, you can’t put the pot to boil if you’re not even willing to turn on the gas, and put some energy into it and have some conversations, and so on and so forth.

Selena: That’s good. It’s good. Couples conversation challenge there.

Ryan: All right. Selena, would you mind praying for us?

Selena: God, thank you so much for creating sex how you did. Lord, I pray that this idea of simmering would be one that is liberating to married Christian couples. I pray that you would give us resilience as we step out and try new things, that we wouldn’t be hurt or too vulnerable, that we would remind ourselves that we are in this covenant we are safe and loved, and that we are able to grow, and the growing will be good.

And so I just pray that this series on sex would just be a continual blessing and encouragement to our listeners and bring people, pastors, counselors in the lives and into the struggles that many are facing. In your name, amen.

Ryan: Amen. Amen. [00:30:00] So as a reminder, this is actually a continuation of our conversation. If you want to have a tool to go even further into this conversation, we actually have a couple’s connection guide within Gospel Centered Marriage, which is, again, our online learning platform for married couples. Everything is gospel-centered.

And you can get in there. We have a course with Gary and Debra, where we talked through this at length. And there’s a seven-page discussion guide, connection guide that we created for you. You can have that if you sign up for gospelcenteredmarriage.com. Just go there and use this promo code to get 25% off. The promo code is SEXYTIME.

Use it gladly without shame, because God created sex and sexy time in married couples’ lives is good. So we hope that blesses you hope you take us up on that. But that’s it for now. So this episode of the Fierce Marriage Podcast is—

Selena: In the can.

Ryan: So we’ll see you again in about seven days. So until next time—

Selena: Stay fierce.

[00:30:59] <outro>

Ryan: Thank you for listening to the Fierce Marriage podcast. For more resources for your marriage, please visit FierceMarriage.com, or you can find us with our handle @Fiercemarriage on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you so much for listening. We hope this has blessed you. Take care.