• Referenced scripture:
  • Galatians 2:9, 1:15
  • Philippians 2:12-18

• Recommended resource:
  • How a Husband Speaks, Ryan Frederick
  • How a Wife Speaks, Selena Frederick
  • thenewsisgood.com

Selena: You’re in the throes of learning Hebrew.

Ryan: Well, yes.

Selena: You’ve already learned Greek, so you’re a master scholar.

Ryan: Just totally nailed it. Yeah, it’s easy. Once you learn it, you never forget it.

Selena: You never forget it.

Ryan: You never have to worry about trying to work on it and make it better. What are you getting at here, Freddy?

Selena: How hard is it to learn a new language, especially as an adult, I would say?

Ryan: You know what? You know, being where I am, I can say with confidence it’s hideously hard. [both laughs]

Selena: I know. I feel like our girls can memorize things and start to understand them so much faster. And I keep explaining things to them, you know. We’ve been trying to learn Latin over the last few years very, you know-

Ryan: Very slowly. I was just lamenting-

Selena: Very classical of us. [laughs]

Ryan: It’s what you do when you’re doing the classical thing. I was just lamenting with you my inability to remember things. [laughs] And you were like, “Is it because you’re on your phone too much? [laughs] And I was like, “A hundred percent that’s what it is.” It’s we’re used to just… anyway.

Selena: Our minds have not been trained… We’re training ourselves to not have to retain stuff, basically. But that’s not the topic for today. The topic for today is how you can learn a new language. And what language that is, we will let you know. And we’ll talk about it on the other side. [both laughs]

[00:01:12]

Ryan: You do realize that, well, we title these episodes-

Selena: I know. [Ryan laughs]

Ryan: Okay.

Selena: As I was saying that, I was like, They probably already know. But I just needed a good lead-in. And not even that, I didn’t feel like I nailed it.

Ryan: I’ll give you a C minus.

Selena: Yeah, it’s fine. [Ryan laughs] So we are the fierce Fredericks.

Ryan: Yeah. Feeling especially fierce today. [Selena laughs] Got my cold brew.

Selena: This is Ryan. I’m Selena. We do the podcast, we do the videos, all the things fierce that we can.

Ryan: We haven’t mentioned it in a while, but if you are just listening on this podcast, welcome to the audio side. But you’re missing so much. We actually don’t have Sunny with us today because she’s with our pseudo-grandparents.

Selena: Yes, our neighbors.

Ryan: Our Neighbors. They’re the sweetest couple.

Selena: She’s within walking distance in case she just can’t handle anything. But she’s also not here-

Ryan: Interrupting.

Selena: Yeah.

Ryan: Which you would nail that-

Selena: This is the first time ever.

Ryan: …by hearing, but also a lot of times by seeing her face.

Selena: If you want to see her, you could watch her on YouTube.

Ryan: So go ahead and subscribe. [Selena laughs] There you go. Aren’t we a team? But yeah, we also want to mention our patrons. We haven’t mentioned them for the last few weeks, so we have a lot to mention. Thank you to these folks for jumping on board, becoming part of the Fierce Fellowship. I said it’s the Fierce Family last week, but I feel like fierce fellowship is so cool.

Selena: Yeah, it is. Fierce fellowship.

Ryan: It’s got the Lord of the Rings 5?

Selena: The fellowship of the Rings. Yeah, I know.

Ryan: So we’re just waffling. We’re just gonna keep waffling on that. So welcome to you Angelica. Joseph, and Caitlin, welcome. Alison P, Katrina H. Nilda, Daryl S, and Jason C the newest members of the Fierce Fellowship, welcome.

Selena: Welcome.

Ryan: You’ll receive your commemorative-

Selena: Welcome.

Ryan: …welcome just now.

Selena: You just received it. [both laughs]

Ryan: If you want to join that, we would be honored. You go to fiercemarriage.com/partner. It’s half of how our family is sustained by the grace of God through you lovely patrons. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, Selena, you’re gonna teach us something about language here today.

Selena: Something about language. So if you have seen the title, which I’m assuming you’re gonna keep the title, we’re talking about learning the language of gratitude in marriage. Because when you cannot talk well… [laughs]

Ryan: Talk good.

Selena: Talk good. When you can’t talk good to each other, and you begin… even the internal monologue in your head, when that starts going south-

Ryan: Okay, well, let’s talk about that because I don’t have one of those. And apparently…

Selena: Okay. Well, for those of us that do that are… when you think thoughts, do you not think thoughts of like…?

Ryan: No. It’s like I feel the thoughts, but they’re not… I don’t think the thoughts.

Selena: Man, she’s being frustrating right now. Or man, she’s-

Ryan: Not in the slightest.

Selena: Really? You just say it and it’s there. What is that like?

Ryan: No. That’s why I have a hard time.

Selena: What is that like?

Ryan: It’s miserable when you’re trying to talk… Like when you’re speaking in front of people, it’s miserable because you’re like, what am I gonna say? I don’t know. Anyway, we won’t go down that rabbit trail. Apparently, that’s a thing. Some people have inner monologues, some people don’t. I don’t.

But the point is, is… what were you saying? [laughs]

Selena: As a wife, it can be very easy to start stewing up things in your head, right? Especially during really busy seasons of life, which we are currently in. And that’s kind of where this topic has come full circle for us. We’re like right in the middle of it all, friends. And we said, Hey, you know what? We’re gonna share in our lessons in grace here that the Lord has bestowed upon us.

So currently you are in full-time seminary at Westminster. You sit on two school boards, one for a local Christian school, one for our homeschool co-op. That’s a classical, I think, school in the making. I’m teaching on Mondays three classes, but we’re there from 8:00 a.m. until 4:00 with all four kids. We have a house, we have chores, we have extra family drama actually happening this season right now even today. We are prepping for a conference. So pray for us. Our first conference ever. And we are so excited about these things.

Ryan: And also I’m running Fierce Marriage full time still. [Laughing] Don’t forget that.

Selena: I know people always ask me stuff about Fierce Marriage and I’m like, “I don’t know.” I just…

Ryan: We do it together.

Selena: I show up.

Ryan: But the buck stops with me.

Selena: You are. You are.

Ryan: So that is still pretty much live. Also just got back from speaking at a men’s conference.

Selena: That was a whole nother thing, is that, yeah, this is kind of fed into some of our pitfalls this last week that we’ll share with you.

Ryan: So life is hectic. And you probably feel the same way, Fierce listener.

Selena: I think we go through seasons in our marriages.

Ryan: Yes. Yes. And here’s the realization we’ve had and that we’re gonna get into it more, but I don’t think it’s hel… It’s like you have surges of activity, surges of… I don’t like the word “busyness”. I feel like we overuse it. Like, say, I’m just busy. Well, I want life to be full. I don’t want it to be busy.

Selena: Sure.

Ryan: Does that make sense?

Selena: Yeah.

Ryan: So that’s just a little-

Selena: There you go.

Ryan: …side nugget. But the point is we have surges of fullness, then you have the slow burn of the things you have to do.

Selena: Right.

Ryan: And so the question we’re always asking is, is this sustainable? If it’s not sustainable, when’s the end date? And are we communicating through it?

Selena: And are we actually recognizing that this is a season and not just giving over the reins and saying, “Nope, this is our life now,” you know?

Ryan: Which is a little bit of what was happening, I feel like in our own lives.

Selena: Yes, absolutely what’s happening. So all good things. We had a conversation last night, a little bit of a heated discussion. We both had to repent. Did you repent?

Ryan: Mm-Hmm. [both laughs] Speak for yourself, Freddy.

Selena: Okay, well, we need to cut. We’ll be right back. [laughs] But all good things that we-

Ryan: I don’t know that you repented. Did you?

Selena: Your season is… I did say I was sorry. [laughs] I did. I even said it again today.

Ryan: Well, I regret. I remember nothing. You were remembering it wrong.

Selena: You were remembering it wrong.

Ryan: Clearly it was a big deal.

Selena: Well, is if you are not repenting things that you should repent.

Ryan: We did some more processing today. [Selena laughs] We did some more processing today. A good kind.

Selena: How quickly we can lose sight of what work is, of what the good things are in our lives. Right? We can have a full life, full of being on boards for schools and helping with our kids’ sports and being available and working and all the things. But if there’s a big transition, if there’s something externally happening, if there’s just… if it’s starting to feel, like you said, this feels like a lot, I think there’s pitfalls within that we can get into. And it can hurt our marriage, it can hurt our unity, it starts chipping away at our covenant. You know, it really kind of starts…

The indicator for me at least is it starts in my head and then whatever’s in my head starts coming out of my mouth. Like you said, so he was traveling. He was in Tennessee last week Wednesday through Sunday. He came home, surprised us Saturday night. And then he had meetings Monday and Tuesday. And then I found out yesterday, which was Wednesday, that he had a meeting today for class and all that. And I didn’t have the calendar. I was kind of at the end of my rope as far as energy, emotional capacity, all the things. And I just said, “Ugh.” [chuckles laughs] He did not like the ugh. So we had to interpret-

Ryan: That’s not all you said.

Selena: Okay. I’m just-

Ryan: You said more things.

Selena: I did.

Ryan: And that’s what I didn’t like.

Selena: It was frustrating, yes. It was very frustrating because there was a lot of buildup to all of this moment. Neither of us had really recognized… you recognized this was a season. You tell me that this season’s coming, but like, I’m in the midst, in the middle of like the mud and I can’t really see out there. I know it’s coming, but for some reason, it still feels way out there, even though it’s like right here.

Ryan: That was the crux of our disagreement last night. Which I was like, to use that analogy, for the near past, I was like, “Hey, check it out, Selena. The winter’s coming. Let’s not get cold. Let’s make sure and build a shelter.”

Selena: Hey, to be fair though, I do this with you on many other things. So we both have our pitfalls in terms-

Ryan: The difference is, if I get caught in the rain, I’m like, “I’m wet.” [laughs] You’re like, “Why is it raining?” [laughs] And I’m like-

Selena: This is why we’re different.

Ryan: And it’s like, “I’m wet because I didn’t grab my umbrella even though my wife said she told me to.” [both laughs]

Selena: We laugh because this is just embarrassing but true. So we both admitted that we both have these pitfalls and tendencies about ourselves to not heat each other’s warnings or, you know, forthcoming. You’re saying this is coming, we need to do this and we’re…

So this is what happened this past week. I had kind of the last straw. I told you it’s just kind of hard for me to wrap my brain around anything that is outside of our normal day. Both of us were physically, emotionally just drained. We are tired. It kind of just…

When those attitudes and heart, sort of, orientation set in, it’s causes me to start questioning, okay, we made all the wrong decisions. [laughs] Like, maybe we shouldn’t do seminary. Maybe we shouldn’t sit on these boards, or you shouldn’t. Maybe we shouldn’t do our co-op. Maybe we should like… And that’s always a red light. You never make big decisions in the middle of the what ifs. That’s 101, right?

Ryan: And I’m like, those ships are out to sea. [both laughs]

Selena: They’re already gone. So I think what we came to understand is that—and you reminded me of this—is that you’re like, “I hear you kind of grumbling. I hear you complaining. It doesn’t sound like you’re grateful.” It is true. I had a wrong perspective. I mean, you’re saying all of these things are good things. Which they are. They were wonderful things.

And for me, I think I was just getting bogged down by the fact that I didn’t feel like we were connecting. You know what I mean? So I was like, “I don’t care what you’re doing. If we’re not connecting, you could be saving people from dying and I’m like, “I don’t care. You’re not connected to me.”

So there’s something to be said for that connection. But there’s also something to be said for me, recognizing like he’s doing good work. He’s saving lives. Right? [laughs]

Ryan: So to speak.

Selena: Yeah. So where’s the balance? These pitfalls of us falling into grumbling with each other, complaining, being ungrateful, just the wrong perspective. If you follow that, you know, through which has been a topic of our conversation, if you keep grumbling, if you keep complaining, eventually it’s just gonna lead you to sin. You’re gonna be coveting other marriages, other lives. You’re gonna want the things that maybe you shouldn’t be wanting at this time. Maybe you want to just have ease and pleasure, or you just don’t want to have to work hard. And the Lord is calling us to work and put our hands to the tilt and find the joy in that season.

You can get frustrated, you can get bitter, you can feel bad for yourself, you can feel lonely. Or you can say, you know what? This is a season. We’re gonna gird up our loins. God’s gonna give us… He’s already given us the strength. [Ryan laughs] He’s sufficient enough. Why are you laughing?

Ryan: Well, I will gird my loins. [both laughs]

Selena: Okay, you gird your loins.

Ryan: Just be clear.

Selena: So we don’t need to lose hope, I guess, is my overall like… we don’t need to lose hope. And you just reminded me that like, let’s shift our perspective. So instead of me waking up thinking, “I’m tired, Oh my gosh, I have another day. Here’s the list, here’s the things, also you, also our schedule,” it’s like, “Okay, here’s the day. Thank you, Lord, that my babies are awake and they’re healthy and they’re happy. I’m so grateful for them.”

Oh, Luis wants to help in the kitchen and make a mess. Thank you, God, that my child wants to be near me. It’s that change of perspective that comes through understanding and exercising this language of gratitude.

Ryan: Wow.

Selena: And that’s the end of our… I’m kidding. [laughs]

Ryan: Yeah. Well, see you next week.

Selena: Sorry. We’ll talk about scripture but…

Ryan: Yeah.

Selena: It’s mainly me just…

Ryan: I’m interested in couple who’s stuck in the middle of this. So much of this is your marriage is immune response to whatever is on the horizon. Right? As a couple, you develop an immune system where you know kind of the attackers, the common attackers.

Selena: Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan: So if you’ve had a past, which we have, where our imbalance in work life and church life and the decisions, the things we’re committed to, the imbalance has damaged us in the past, and I’ve not led well through that. So that’s caused you to have some kneejerk reactions now that are the result of 15 years ago.

Selena: We talked last night.

Ryan: Well, saving it for the podcast. [Selena laughs] I’m just processing in real-time.

Selena: It’s true.

Ryan: …because I don’t actually have inner monologues. I have to do it now. [laughs] No. So the question is how much of our response is that? Meaning it’s healthy, you’re seeing the dash lights go on, you’re knowing under the hood something needs to be looked at, maybe we’re not heading in the right direction. Versus we just need to grow a little bit. And you alluded to it earlier when you said, “I don’t care if you’re saving lives, if we’re not connected, I want you home.” Right? Well, I know that you literally you don’t mean that.

Selena: No.

Ryan: Like you would wrap your head around it. And that’s what you’re talking about. Like, you’re doing good work. So at what point do we just realize, okay, there’s an immature way to handle this season and there’s a mature way to handle it. There’s a spirit-led way to handle it. There’s a fleshly way to handle it.

I’m not saying spirit-led is always ‘Selena, do what Ryan says to do,” or “do the hardest thing,” or do whatever. Like always fall on your sword. That’s not necessarily spirit-led.

Selena: No.

Ryan: But there is a way to be mature about it and say, okay, how much of this is my flesh? Meaning I just don’t like it and I don’t want to walk in obedience in this season, which means I need to buck up a little bit. And how much of it is I am spirit-led and I feel like this is leading to something very bad for our marriage?

Selena: Right. How do you know what those indicators are? How do you know what those warnings are?

Ryan: And you can’t possibly do that if you’re not a prayerful person, if you’re not a person of the word, if you’re not humbling yourself before God.

Selena: And if you’re not a person that-

Ryan: How are you gonna discern what the spirit is saying and what the flesh is saying?

Selena: Right. And if you’re not a person who gathers with the saints on a regular basis, I would add. So if you’re not going to church, in the word-

Ryan: If you’re isolated.

Selena: Yeah, and you’re isolated-

Ryan: And… Sorry, I want to jump in because… and maybe the people that are actually speaking into your life it’s more social media feeds than it is actual human beings.

Selena: And they are really good at isolating you, making you feel like you are not good enough. And-

Ryan: They’re really good at drawing out the ingratitude in your heart.

Selena: Yes, making you discontent. So part of this conversation did come from our new communication book. So this is How a Wife Speaks. Chapter 9 is actually called Learning the Language of Gratitude. And it talks a little bit about my own experience, again, when we had our first child and kind of the season that we were walking through then, and how I felt kind of alone.

You know, reading through Exodus 14 and how, you know, God is bringing the Israelites out of Egypt and so quickly they forget, so quickly they grumble. So soon after He does miraculous things for them in front of them, provides for them. And then it’s just like, Yeah, look at them how terrible they are. And then the Lord just kind of… you know, the Holy Spirit just nicely, gently reminds me that that is me. Like we are the Israelites. Right?

Ryan: Yeah.

Selena: We are constantly discontent, asking for things, looking for things. Our heart is always wandering. So in my Bible plan, I was reading Galatians 2:9. It says, “and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised. Only they asked us to remember the poor—the very thing I also was eager to do.

The first part of this verse just struck me. “And recognizing the grace that had been given to me…” Knowing who Paul was, knowing the grace that has been given to him, ungratefulness and complaining could steal that from him. It could have just stole the grace and the goodness that he knew, if Paul decided to be ungrateful, if Paul decided to complain about his life. Right? If Paul decided… And I don’t want to give too much agency there. Paul was transformed and changed by Christ.

Ryan: And this is the word of God.

Selena: And this is the word of God.

Ryan: By Paul, but inspired by the Holy Spirit. And so it-

Selena: Well, because I-

Ryan: Why is the Holy Spirit then leading Paul to say it in this way?

Selena: Right. And the verses before, and I should have read this too. Paul being called by God, he said, “And I was advanced in Judaism, but when God who had set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me…” And this is chapter one, verse 15. “…through his grace, he was pleased to reveal his son in me so that I might proclaim him as good news among Gentiles.”

So, again, I think we so easily as Christians just gloss over this fact that the Lord has called us. To what? Gratefulness. He’s called us to live under the grace and goodness of God Himself.

Ryan: And-

Selena: Go ahead.

Ryan: Well, this goes back to what we were saying earlier about how can you expect to understand the difference between what we call holy discontent and just plain old vanilla discontent. Right? Because if you’re never before the face of God, reading the word of God, walking in the spirit Of God, praying to God-

Selena: How do you filter through that?

Ryan: How are you ever gonna know, like God, we are discontent right now for good reason.

Selena: Right.

Ryan: Because You’re calling us somewhere and You’re asking us to move in a new way. So that’s been our experience in life is that there’ll be times when there’s discontent. But it’s a holy discontentment and that we are fi… If God doesn’t change anything, we’re content in Him.

Selena: Right. Right.

Ryan: But we also know He’s calling us in faith to step out and to do, you know-

Selena: And I think the unholy discontentment is kind of marked by sinful behavior or teetering on sin, right? Like it’s-

Ryan: Yeah. Driven by covetousness. Driven by greed-

Selena: Pride.

Ryan: Driven by pride. Yeah.

Selena: Jealousy, those kinds of things. And so-

Ryan: Driven by even lust.

Selena: Yeah. 100%

Ryan: I mean, you name a sin, right? It can lead you to be discontent in some way.

Selena: A hundred percent.

Ryan: And if you entertain it, it’ll materialize as complaining, as, you know, grumbling.

Selena: Right. And how can we take agency in that? Again, by exercising gratitude in those situations and not complain, not grumble, not argue. Be obedient to God’s word even when we don’t feel like being obedient. Right?

Ryan: Let’s read from Philippians 2. This is kind of the go-to verse about grumbling and complaining. Here it is. What’s the version here? This is the ESV. So it says this, “Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.”

That statement’s not what we’re talking about here, but this is gearing up for this. So Paul is saying to them, Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Why? Because it’s God who works through you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. So the main thing is work out your faith with fear and trembling.

Now he goes into the next verse. There’s a direct correlation between how you complain and grumble and how you’re working out your faith, or how you don’t complain and grumble and how you’re working out your faith. That’s what I’m trying to say.

So verse 14, “Do all things without grumbling or disputing, that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me.

I believe Philippians is one of Paul’s prison epistles. And so he’s writing this saying like, “Hey, I could be poured out. I mean, I could be done for and run in such a way that I don’t have to regret basically the time that we’ve spent together.”

Selena: Right, the time.

Ryan: And that has to do with what’s coming out of you. Is it gratefulness because of the thing that God’s called you to or is it grumbling because you’ve lost sight of it already?

Selena: Right. I mean, how much of that is just the Christian life? I mean, the titles of chapter 2 is Christ Example of Humility. And then this part of the grumbling is Being Lights in the World. Like we all have to face hard things. And what is our response as a Christian? What should our response be? It should be one of gratitude. Like, considerate joy, my brothers, when you face trials of many kinds, that it’ll develop within you perseverance, strength, like all the things.

So the fire is not always bad. It’s uncomfortable and we don’t really like it all the time. But again, discerning if it’s the fire of God that is refining us, right?

Ryan: Mm-Hmm.

Selena: …then let’s embrace it.

Ryan: We talked about that last week-

Selena: We did.

Ryan: …about how the fires are hot. So marriage is a fire, in a good way. And it can either make you better or it can make you bitter. Not to sound too trite with that.

Selena: But there it is.

Ryan: I changed the vowels. And the vowel made it a different word. And that’s clever.

Selena: It is. So we have to run through this really quickly of just there’s five pillars of encouragement. We’ll just say. Okay, five pillars of encouragement. If you are kind of feeling stuck and feeling grumbly, complainy, disconnected, frustrated in a season of busyness, here’s what we’re learning, and here’s what we would share with you.

Number one, pray and seek the Lord, and then talk to your spouse. If you want to know more about our season that we went through, get these books. Look at chapter nine, wives.

Ryan: These books if you’re not watching-

Selena: Sorry.

Ryan: …it’s How a Husband Speaks, How a Wife Speaks.

Selena: Right. Learn the language of gratitude. It is absolutely a game-changer and a life-changer. There you go. So pray.

Get to a church. We’ve talked about this. If you don’t have one, find one. You know, it was really hard for us to have one child and not have a community of believers around us. That was, I think, one of the hardest seasons for us. Don’t be that person.

Number three, recognize the season together as a couple. See, we have this really bad habit of just jumping into whatever’s next on the calendar or whatever we’re doing. Not actually taking the time to mark the time. We’re gonna have Sunday family meetings now.

Ryan: This is one of our takeaways from our-

Selena: This is one of our own personal takeaways. We’re gonna discuss things like calendars, upcoming events. Not weekly, monthly ones, but like bigger ones. How we might have to divide and conquer on this. What it means for us as a family, the yeses and the nos, why they will be what they will be.

Agreement on boundaries. Again, pray together with each other, for each other and then beginning and ending of seasons. Is this a beginning of a busy season or is this a big change that’s gonna be lasting for a while? And we need to grow into this?

Ryan: I want to speak to husbands directly on this for one minute. A lot of men, for good reason, they’re wired to be pioneers in one way or another. They’re wired to maybe start a business or to go do something difficult. I think that’s what men are wired to do. To take a hill, so to speak. Well, if you married a woman… If you’re listening to this, you probably did. [laughs]

Selena: And you should.

Ryan: And you should. Find yourself a good woman. I did. [Selena laughs] If you married somebody, you married a woman, she’s given her life to you and she’s entrusting a lot of that stuff for you, you need to care for her.

Selena: Right.

Ryan: Well, it’s not just the future that you’re caring for. You need to care for her now. So a lot of times guys will go and say, “Hey honey, we’re gonna take this hill. I need you to go with me and just trust me. And it’s gonna be, you know, long weeks, I’m gonna do 60, 80 hours a week and blah, blah, blah. This is so important because it’s gonna be our future. It’s gonna be this big thing in the community. It’s gonna be whatever the thing is. And there’s all these big grand reasons why.

And your wife’s saying, “Okay, well, I’m with you. I can do that.” Well, you need to give her a deadline. Not every season deserves to go on indefinitely. I’m speaking to the men here. Give your wife the service of saying, “Here’s the deadline. It’s gonna be really hard for six months. It’s gonna be really hard for a year. It’s gonna be really hard for the first two years, sweetie. If it’s not to a place where it can be less hard for us, then I will make a decision and I’ll adjust.”

Selena: Right. And I think that is very assuring to the wife. A wife needs assurance. A wife needs to feel safe and provided for. So when you say we’re doing these great things, I’m like, That’s great. But if I don’t feel assured, if I don’t feel safe, if I don’t feel like we’re connecting, then, again, it doesn’t matter what you’re doing. I don’t know… it’s hard… I need to submit my flesh and I need to still go up the hill without complaining and grumbling. Ugh [both laughs]

Ryan: Was that a grumble?

Selena: How did that taste? [laughs] Coming out of your mouth like vinegar. Anyways. I think there’s a call to both, right? We both need to grow. Last point here before we wrap it up because we gotta go. Find joy in your work together and lift your eyes. Don’t get discouraged by the details. Don’t get overwhelmed by the schedules. Use wisdom, exercise discernment. Be on each other’s side. Be on each other’s team.

Ryan: That’s good.

Selena: Get each other’s back. Find the moments in between. That’s what we’re working on. There’s little moments in between that you can connect.

Ryan: Little decisions that you’re making-

Selena: Small decisions. Micro decisions. That was two weeks ago.

Ryan: Two or three weeks back. Look at micro decision, micro choices, and micro decisions. That make a huge difference while we’re learning that… we’re applying that I’ll say. That’s good. We are out of time. We just go get the baby.

Let me pray for us. Father God, thank You for this. Thank You for your word that it’s always instructive. We pray that it lands in our hearts, in a place that will bear fruit. We pray that it lands in the hearts and minds of the husbands and wives watching, listening to this, that would bear fruit in their life and in their marriage as well. You are the ultimate reason for gratitude. We give it all to you. We love you. In Jesus name, amen.

Selena: If you don’t know the Lord, where should they start?

Ryan: If you don’t know the Lord, talk to a friend who does. They will read the Bible with you. Ask them to read the Bible with you. Find a church that preaches out of the Bible. If you don’t know where to find the church, we have a website set up for you that will explain what the gospel means, but also it’ll point you to some good churches in your area, Lord willing. It’s thenewsisgood.com. Go check that out.

Selena: All right.

Ryan: One quick reminder. If you want to partner with us, go to fiercemarriage.com/partner. We would be honored and blessed by that. Either way, we’re thankful we get to do this work. And we will see you again in about seven days. So until next time—

Selena: Stay fierce.