• [00:00:00]
  • Scripture referenced:
    • Ecclesiastes 3:1-4, paraphrase, ESV
  • Song reference:
    • The Byrds: Turn, Turn, Turn
      • https://youtu.be/pX6SuX0Z6AQ

• [00:10:18]
  • Book reference:
    • Leonti, Adam. Flour Lab: An At-Home Guide to Baking with Freshly Milled Grains. Clarkson Potter, 2019.
    • https://www.amazon.com/Flour-Lab-At-Home-Milling-Cooking/dp/152476096X

• [00:15:01]
  • Scripture reference:
    • Genesis 1:14-15, paraphrase, KJV
  • Classical Conversations:
    • https://www.classicalconversations.com/
  • Ross King: King Things:
    • YouTube; Multiplication Tables songs:
      • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZom6STTKqM&list=OLAK5uy_mcadYhnhg_8mBubbBm2QKJH5Lj1QQcYpk
  • King Things YouTube:
    • https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBKDcQzwS9DkCsP6qfz_ihg/featured

• [00:25:00]
  • Scripture reference:
    • Psalm 90:12, paraphrase, unknown version
    • Matthew 4:4, paraphrase, unknown version
  • Book reference:
    • Kreider, Alan. Patient Ferment of the Early Church. Baker Academic, 2016.
    • https://www.amazon.com/Patient-Ferment-Early-Church-Christianity/dp/0801048494

• [00:30:01]
  • Lindsay Letters Instagram account:
    • https://www.instagram.com/lindsayletters.co/
  • Book reference:
    • Konkin, Tina. How God Used “the Other Woman”: Saving Your Marriage after Infidelity. Focus on the Family, 2019.
    • https://tinakonkin.com/the-other-woman/

• [00:35:00]
  • Scripture referenced:
    • Colossians 3:2a, NIV
    • Colossians 3:5a, paraphrase, ESV
    • John 14:27, partial paraphrase, unknown version
    • Colossians 3:5a, ESV
    • Colossians 3:12-17, ESV

Ryan:
“For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: a time to be born, a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted; a time to kill, a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance…” And it goes on and on. Contrary to popular thought, that is not just a song by The Birds; that comes from Ecclesiastes 3!

Selena:
Mmm!

Ryan:
Whole point is there are seasons and rhythms and… changes that happen in life.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And there’s a time for everything it would seem!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And so, sometimes we have a hard time… [Both chuckle]

Selena:
All the time. [Chuckles]

Ryan:
[Both chuckling] Seeing what time we are in. Right?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
We have a hard time identifying the seasons that we are in, and it makes it hard to deal with whatever’s happening in that season, right?

Selena:
Yeah, yeah! Oftentimes, I think we put expectations on the wrong seasons. We try to live in a season that we’re just not in.

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
And then we’re… frustrated with why are we not thriving or why are we arguing all the time? Shouldn’t we be happier? Why am I not feeling in love with you or whatever the thing is?

Ryan:
Yeah. Yeah, and I think all of that can be calibrated against our ultimate purpose, which, of course, is to know God even more.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And so, when we see ourselves in light of all that He is and all that He’s done on the cross in Christ, it can help us in whatever season we’re going through.
Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
But first, we have to recognize— recognize there are seasons. [Laughs]

Selena:
I feel like you just want to wrap! [Ryan laughs harder] You’re like [Takes on a rap tone], “We in and recognize!” [Selena chuckles and resumes normal speech]

Ryan:
All right, all right, all right. Whatever.

Selena:
[Chuckling] You’re words are—

Ryan:
We’ll see you on the other side! [Selena chuckles]

<Intro Sequence>

Selena:
Don’t shove me over to the other side! [Giggles]

Ryan:
[Laughing] I’ll do what I want!

Selena:
[Giggling] I will not be shoved! [Both laugh lightly]

Ryan:
I will not be mocked!

Selena:
[Resumes rapper voice from earlier] You better recognize! [Both laugh and she resumes normal speech]

Ryan:
[Both laughing and Ryan presumes a rapper voice as well] Recognize! [Selena laughs and Ryan resumes normal speech] You can’t say one thing wrong, all right?

Selena:
I totally would have been a rapper in another life. I had rap songs that I really liked.

Ryan:
Lakehood!

Selena:
Yep. Like Vanilla Ice.

Ryan:
She’s from a town called Lakehood!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
They’re known for being… [Selena cackles] a little bit hood-ish. Lakewood is what it’s called.

Selena:
You’re funny.

Ryan:
Yeah, yeah! So… I actually read—

Selena:
[Chuckles] Ph, yeah. [Giggles]

Ryan:
[Both chuckling] I read a quote from J.I. Packer. I’m going to try to look it up really quickly, but it alludes to what I said on the other side. It says this… Aw, shoot! Okay, yeah. “Once you become aware that the main business that you are here for is to know God, most of life’s problems fall into place of their own accord.”

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
All right. How relieving is that?

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Right? The main business that I am here to do is to know God.

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
I’m not here to leave a legacy.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
I’m not here to make a name for myself. I’m not here to have the perfect marriage or the perfect family, the perfect experience in this life. My sole, ultimate purpose… Okay. We’ll say soul-ultimate purpose…

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Is to know God.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
That’s our context! And that’s what gives us reasons for seasons. [Chuckles]

Selena:
Reasons for seasons. Well, and it helps frame our response to those seasons, right? If we’re here to know God—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And we’re in a hard season, and He says we can still have peace… How? Why?

Ryan:
Mm!

Selena:
Because…

Ryan:
[Clicks tongue] That’s good!

Selena:
We are in Him.
Ryan:
Right? And it’s easy to say pat answers, right?

Selena:
We’re here to know Him.

Ryan:
And so—

Selena:
Well, yeah!

Ryan:
And say, “Oh! Because Jesus.”

Selena:
[Whispers] I’m not trying to say a pat answer…

Ryan:
Because you’re— I know. You’re not. I know that you’re not trying to say that, but I’m trying to say that we…

Selena:
Kind of feels like it.

Ryan:
Are here to not gloss over that question.

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
And to definitely go deeper into those things.

Selena:
Thank you.

Ryan:
[Inhales] Okay. So, we have a fun question I want to answer first. [Selena laughs] Somebody wrote in… a super kind listener. [Ryan snickers] And…

Selena:
You’re just tickled about this, aren’t’cha?

Ryan:
I’m just tickled! I’m just tickled. [Selena laughs] She says, “First, I love the podcast.” Oh, thank you! Thank you. I’m flattered! [Both laugh] No, seriously! It’s really encouraging. She said, “Thank you so much for your transparency and honesty and ability to dig deep and get to the heart of the topics being covered.” We’re so glad that comes across! ‘Cause—

Selena:
I think that’s you.

Ryan:
Well…

Selena:
I don’t feel very clear on things sometimes. [Laughs]

Ryan:
You’re clearer than you give yourself credit for.

Selena:
That’s the Lord!

Ryan:
And then she said, “Okay. Now for my slightly silly but also very serious question.” [Selena laughs] I agree! It’s silly and very serious! Okay, because I know that she can’t be the only one wondering. She said, “Would you please share your favorite bread recipes?” [Ryan laughs] Okay, if you’ve been listening to the podcast for a little while, she—

Selena:
Ryan’s super into making bread.

Ryan:
Yes, right. And she finished it and said, “My husband—”

Selena:
Like, hand making bread.

Ryan:
“And I have also recently gotten into making and testing homemade bread and would love to know your favorites.” Okay! Man does not live on bread alone, but every word that,” [Both laugh], “proceeds from the mouth of God.” I get that! All right. We’re here to talk about Jesus, but if you don’t like talking about bread, just fast-forward 30 seconds.

Selena:
Just hit your little 15-second button.

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
Like, twice.

Ryan:
So [Selena laughs], thank you for asking that question because bread has become life around here.

Selena:
Yes. In more ways than one.

Ryan:
So, when Louisa was born three months ago, three and a half months ago, we hunkered down. It was right around… Thanksgiving. And I took four to six weeks off. I worked a few hours a day, but it wasn’t super intense. But I started making bread because we watched the British Baking Show and I wanted a family loaf!

Selena:
Always had bread week.

Ryan:
So, we have a seed loaf, we have a holiday loaf now, and a killer white bread that I started making.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Which that’s my rapper name. [Laughs]

Selena:
Are you going to post these?

Ryan:
[Cackling] That’s my rapper name!

Selena:
[Chuckling] White Bread?

Ryan:
[Laughing] It’s White Bread. Recognize!

Selena:
[Laughing] You going to post these recipes in the show notes?

Ryan:
No, I won’t, ‘cause there’s no such thing.

Selena:
Okay.

Ryan:
There are no recipes. That’s my answer, is that you have to understand the reasons why you make the bread [Selena giggles], why the bread does what it does, then you go with it. So, my favorite recipe right now is simply flour, salt, water and yeast. Right?

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And I will say this, I do it by weight. 800 grams of flour makes a nice big loaf. Add about 15 grams of yeast, about 15, 14 grams of kosher salt. Taste better. And then just do water until it feels right! [Both briefly laugh] Mixin’ on up! Let it rise for about an hour. Form your bread, your loaf. Okay, and then put it in a tin.

Selena:
For second proof!

Ryan:
Put it in the tin, and let it prove extra-long. And the reason to do that is it makes it light and fluffy. Okay, but it also lets the yeast kind of mature and add a lot more flavor to the bread. It gets really big, and kind of “rotund” [Selena snickers and Ryan chuckles] is the word I like to use. [Ryan laughs]

Selena:
I can’t sit here with a serious face. [Both laughing]

Ryan:
I like my bread rotund! [Laughs]

Selena:
Just…

Ryan:
Like… [Both laugh] I won’t say wh—

Selena:
I’m sorry, what?

Ryan:
Uhh…

Selena:
Excuse me?

Ryan:
Then after you let it proof extra-long, here’s what I’ve started doing recently is don’t pull it out. I put it in our oven to proof. Don’t pull it out before you turn the over on. [Selena snickers and Ryan chuckles] Selena, you need to mature. You need to grow up. [Selena continues laughing] Turn the oven on while it’s in there! Okay? And let it heat up. And what that does is that lets the air, now that the yeast has made, it—it—it expands. [Selena snickers] It expands! Selena! You need to grow up! [Ryan laughs] Oh my goodness! [Inhales] It expands, and then eventually—

Selena:
I am not the only one!

Ryan:
The heat—

Selena:
Let’s just be honest here.

Ryan:
350 for about 45 to 55 minutes. Okay. And then—

Selena:
There’s other people laughing right now. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Okay. Well, enjoy yourselves! [Selena cackles] [Ryan plays a quote from an audio clip] “Oh, good for you!” If you’re laughing in your car or wherever you are, I hope you’re proud of yourself! [Both laughing]

Selena:
Nobody makes you laugh quite like you do.

Ryan:
You’re on Selena’s side [Selena laughs] officially. Anyway! If you’re just drooling about bread right now, you’re on my side. [Quietly chuckles]

Selena:
It’s really good bread.

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
I really enjoy eating it.

Ryan:
Anyway! I hope that was clear. Selena was interrupting very rudely.

Selena:
I’m sorry! You can put it in the show notes. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Okay. So, that was a little bit of a detour. But you know what? Sometimes you got to do that, and it’s fun.

Selena:
You’re just excited about bread, and you can do that.

Ryan:
Yeah. I will say, the holiday loaf was really good.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
And that—

Selena:
It was like cran—

Ryan:
I won’t get into that recipe now, but…

Selena:
It’s cranberry, orange, walnut.
Ryan:
Cranberry, orange, walnut. And it was really good!

Selena:
[With an accent] Oh, baby!

Ryan:
I think it’ll be better next year when I know my new rising techniques though.

Selena:
Mmm!

Ryan:
‘Cause it’s a heavy dough.

Selena:
[Laughs] It’s a heavy dough.

Ryan:
It’s a heavy dough. [Chuckles]

Selena:
So, are we going to move on to our discussion or do you want to go back to some of the housekeeping stuff?

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Because—

Ryan:
You guys know housekeeping. If you want to support this…

Selena:
Podcast.

Ryan:
Podcast. Thank you! Go to patreon.com/fiercemarriage. I might share the bread recipe there!

Selena:
Oh! Hey, oh.

Ryan:
But again, it doesn’t exist. [Cackles]

Selena:
It exists up in your mind.

Ryan:
If you have any questions, we answer a question about once a week on Thursdays. Go to fiercemarriage.com/podcast. We’re going to be answering a question this Thursday, if we get it out this Thursday, on codependency and kind of what that means.

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
And are you codependent? Right? And that’s what somebody asks. They asked, “Are we codependent?” Their friends have been telling them that. So, we’re going to talk about that. And then the final piece of housekeeping is if you’ve gotten anything out of this podcast and you want to show some love, we appreciate that. Go to iTunes or wherever your podcasting app, leave a rating and a review! Means a ton! Thank you in advance!

Selena:
So, our discussion has come from your love of loafing bread. [Both laugh] Is that right? No.

Ryan:
Got to love a good loaf! [Both laugh] Best loaf ever!

Selena:
No, it hasn’t. That’s not where it came from. But there was something that— So, you like making bread. Your mom got you a “how to make bread” book kind of thing. It’s called Flour Lab. We’re not promoting it, but it’s a really good book.

Ryan:
It’s right up my alley—

Selena:
It is.

Ryan:
‘Cause it talks about the science and all that, which is really cool.

Selena:
It is! And it kind of affirms what we’re talking about today, about seasons of marriage, and so, and not the seasons necessarily of marriage, which I think those are big things to hit. If you’re a newlywed or nearly wed, or you’re a very seasoned marriage person [Both laugh] … We’ve been married for a long time! We’re kind of talking about the seasons within the seasons. So, if you’re going through a hard time or if you’re dealing with loss, how to deal with trauma, those kinds of things, are just— So, anyways! Let me just read this little intro in this bread book, The Flour Lab. It says, “One of the greatest aspects of working with food is that if you listen to the ingredients, they will tell you how to use them. I don’t mean this in some wacky, whimsical way, but in the most practical sense. If you pick up an apple and it’s underripe, use its texture to your advantage: slice it thinly and toss it in a salad.”

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
“Give an overripe apple over to its natural evolution and mash it into jam or bake it into a pie. And if it’s perfectly ripe, just take a bite.” [Both chuckle] “I’m a firm believer that ingredients should dictate the menu, not the cook preparing it.” So…

Ryan:
It’s profound!

Selena:
It’s really profound in a lot of ways! But I like the thing that he said about just letting the ingredients sort of determine the menu.

Ryan:
Mm. Yeah!

Selena:
And I feel like that’s kind of how we can go about this business of seasons in our marriage.

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
Maybe we’re having a hard time identifying what is a season. Are we in a certain season, or is there anything that we’re dealing with?

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
And I guess I would say look around you, or what are the ingredients and how are they determining where you’re at a little bit? And looking at kind of the signs and thin— Again, okay. I’m not trying to get weird here, right? I’m saying—

Ryan:
No.

Selena:
Look at your marriage. Take an inventory. Be honest.

Ryan:
Well, okay. [Exhales]

Selena:
’Cause we’re not good, I think, at identifying.

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
We see Instagram and we’re like, “Man! My marriage should be like that!” Well, maybe you’re not on a vacation in the Bahamas right now. Maybe you are really just down in the dumps and having a hard time—

Ryan:
Wow.

Selena:
And you need to understand that it’s just a season, too. Right? There’s freedom in that.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
So, that’s…

Ryan:
So—

Selena:
You look like you want to say something.

Ryan:
I’m thinking here, because I had a rant.

Selena:
That is allowed. I will allow that.

Ryan:
I had quite a rant as we were discussing this.

Selena:
He’s gotten more ranty in his old age. [Ryan laughs]

Ryan:
[Ryan laughs] I’m getting old and ranty! [Selena giggles] And anyway, I was thinking through kind of just culture, as I like to do, and what’s the water we’re swimming in, right? Capitalism, right, is a big kind of… topic—
Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Obviously today with the political what-not, but our whole society is built on capitalism.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
For the most part. And because of that, we have an amazing number of amenities available to us. We can go to the grocery store and I can get pretty much anything that our family would need or want.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Right? Pretty much anything.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
I could decide, “Oh, I want to eat… wild-caught salmon,” right? And I can go to the store and I could get wild-caught salmon. I don’t have to go wild catch—

Selena:
Fish for it.

Ryan:
The salmon. [Both laugh]

Selena:
[Laughing] Wild catch?

Ryan:
I don’t have to figure out how to get in a boat and figure out how to fish, how to find the fish, and then gut the fish so we can eat the fish. That’s a really nice amenity, or a luxury, of life that we have right now.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
It’s kind of the downside of that is everything has gotten so commoditized and so choice-driven that we tend to think that we should have complete command over every aspect of our lives at any point in time.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Right? And that’s why, when we read this book, right, it’s by— What’s— Adam Leonti. Did you say his name? “Lee-on-tee?”

Selena:
There you go!

Ryan:
When I read his intro, I was just like, “Oh! That is so relieving to hear. ‘Let the ingredients determine the menu.’” In other words, quit trying to control it. Quit trying to choose it. Just kind of fall in line with what’s happening around you in some regards. Now granted, we’re not called to just be passive observers of life.
Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
We’re not called to be lazy. But if you’re going through a hard season with children—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And you’re not able to sleep, maybe it’s time to just do what gets you the most sleep. Right? [Selena chuckles] That’s one example.

Selena:
[Chuckling] Right.

Ryan:
Maybe if your family’s hungry and you don’t have any food, and the nearest prey that you can have is a deer, then you’re going to eat deer tonight! Right?

Selena:
[Chuckling] Right.

Ryan:
Eat wh— You know what I mean?

Selena:
You’re saying metaphorically, and like…

Ryan:
Metaphorically speaking.

Selena:
Yes. [Chuckles]

Ryan:
Yes. So, well, the sleep thing’s very, very literal for us.

Selena:
That’s very literal, yes.

Ryan:
We’ve had to find ways that work.

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
But—

Selena:
Yeah. No, I think that we—

Ryan:
That’s what you’re saying.

Selena:
I think that we just try to… We see something that we want and so we try to get it however we can.

Ryan:
Right!

Selena:
And so—

Ryan:
I want to get past this thing, so I can’t figure it out. I don’t know what is happening. I just want to get through it. And so, you start kind of just bulldozing your way through this hard time.

Selena:
Right, right. I want to be happy again! I just want to connect again! I just want to communicate again. I just want to have good sex again. We just—

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
We’re not identifying. Okay, maybe this is difficult!

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
And this is something that God is… I don’t want to be just throwing this out here, but maybe God in His loving, good graciousness is allowing us to walk through some of this stuff.

Ryan:
Oh, for sure! Yeah.

Selena:
It’s not out of His control. It’s not hitting Him by surprise. But He’s allowing some of these things to… come into our marriage to help us to deal with it, to sanctify us, to bring us—

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
To our knees, to help us to… deepen our need for Him, I think.

Ryan:
[Inaudible]

Selena:
And to deepen our knowledge of Him—

Ryan:
And it goes—

Selena:
And our experience. Go ahead.

Ryan:
You’re nailing it. It goes exactly back to that big topic, which we exist to know God.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
So, how is this season helping me know God?

Selena:
Right, right!

Ryan:
That is the meal that I’m to prepare—

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
From these ingredients He’s given me.

Selena:
And I think, honestly, we spend too much time figuring out what we want and what we want to know rather than… knowing God.

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
I know that I’m guilty of that. I feel like that’s something that—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
I’m super guilty of. And…

Ryan:
Of course, there’s nuances, right?

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
And we’re not saying to just sit and wait and just stew in it!

Selena:
No.

Ryan:
We’re not saying to stagnate in it. We’re saying to be content in Christ in it.

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
And look to Him and, yes! Use your mind. Use wisdom. Start making steps. The point is not to halt forward progress. It’s to progress in a way that’s not so much fighting upstream.

Selena:
So good!

Ryan:
But just going alo— Not going along with our own sin, anything like that.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
But going along with kind of rolling with the punches, as they say.

Selena:
Yep! Yeah. And how do we get to know God even more? I mean, the first thing, obviously, that comes to mind is spending time in the Word. And we’re doing Classical Conversations, and we are doing Genesis 1 for memorization.

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
For versus 1 through 27. If you ever have never heard of Ross King or King’s Things, check him out on Spotify and anything he does. Multiplication tables. But the coolest thing that he does, it’s all to music, is that he does Bible verses in these huge chunks! So, our three and six-year-old, and me! Yay! [Ryan chuckles] Know 27 verses by [Chuckling] heart! And hand-motions because of these songs! And it’s good music!

Ryan:
It is, it is.

Selena:
You want to listen to it. Anyways. So, we’re learning that in the King James Version, which is super poetic and just awesome to sing and learn. But verses Genesis 1:14-15 say, “And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light upon the earth: and it was so.” [Inhales]

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
So, here was we’re watching God create order, right? He’s dividing.

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
He’s putting signs. There’s seasons, there’s days and years.

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
This just confirms our knowledge and belief that God is a God of order and that He has created seasons for a purpose, which is—

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
Ultimately for our good and for His glory. And so, by seasons, again, we’re not getting wacky here. We’re not looking at signs. We’re not like, “Oh, what if this cloud floats this way, then this,” right?

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
That’s not at all what we’re talking about. We’re saying, “Okay. Our marriage feels kind of dry right now. I don’t feel like we’re connecting.” Or for us, we—

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
We were trying to figure out what’s the next season with Fierce Marriage. And we have little kids at home. It doesn’t necessarily mean we can just go out and speak all the time! We value home time right now, and we value educating and discipling them. So, we—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
There’s certain things that we just can’t do in the season. But it’s not forever! And we’re not newly married, right? So, there’s different things to consider.

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
Right now, for us, it’s a time of sowing. And so, what does that mean for us? That means that certain things are good, and we should continue walking in those and following those. And some things are just not right now. And we have to be okay with that freedom—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
That God’s given us in those. And just saying, “No, not right now,” doesn’t mean, “Oh, we’re just going to sit here and be lacking.” No! God’s growing something else in us in those seasons, the season that we’re in. And so, say you’re in a season of rebuilding, right? There’s been a breach of trust.

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
Maybe you are thinking, “Man! This feels like such a waste of my time in my marriage.”

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
“I wish that we didn’t have to go through this,” or, “Why couldn’t he or she just be trustworthy and not have cheated, or not have lied to me, or these things?” Well, again, if God’s created seasons and signs for purposes, there’s reasons why we might be walking through that! And I think the bigger question is, “God, how can I know You more in the season?”

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
“How can I give You glory in this season? It sucks. It’s dark. It’s hard. I feel alone. God help me! Help me to see how I can bring You glory in these seasons.” And so, hopefully the idea of season is more defined.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
I don’t know if I should blow this out a little bit more…

Ryan:
Well, what I hear you saying, so you used our example of, okay, we have young kids. Obviously, we’re kind of unique in the sense that you said we’re not out speaking a lot. Right?

Selena:
Right. Right, right, right.

Ryan:
There’s not a lot of couples that would necessarily go and have to make that decision, right?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Maybe there’s a job they’re working, maybe that looks like they’re not going to certain places on…

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
They’re not beholding certain opportunities. So, there’s big seasons like that.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Right?

Selena:
Big seasons of kids, young kids.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
There’s other seasons of rebuilding, again, trust or post trauma.

Ryan:
And those are big, long seasons.

Selena:
Yeah. There’s seasons of change, like you have a new location, new job, new community.

Ryan:
Mm-hm. Yep.

Selena:
They’re seasons of loss! Maybe you’re dealing with death or a miscarriage, right?

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Or a family member or friend. And there’s these seasons within the seasons of [Chuckling] our marriage. And… I think—

Ryan:
Explain that a little bit. So, there’s… We’re experiencing a loss or maybe a betrayal or something like that.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
So, that’s a big season. But we could also have just a season where, man, we’re just in a funk.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Our communication… We can’t seem to—

Selena:
Connect.

Ryan:
To be on the same wavelength.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Our intimate life maybe is not as good as it has been.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Right? We’re always transparent, right? So, we just had our third daughter. Intimate life has been different… after her.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Right? It’s not been the same. And it’s been— I wouldn’t say it’s not been good. I think it’s been good. I think it’s been good, and we’ve grown, and we’ve learned, and you’ve been such a gracious wife, and I hope I’ve returned to the graciousness to you. [Chuckles quietly] But—

Selena:
[Selena states quietly] Just do the dishes, man. [Ryan laughs and Selena resumes her normal tone] Just kidding!

Ryan:
[Ryan laughs] I’ve been doing a lot of dishes! [Selena laughs] You guys wonder why I make bread, right? [Selena laughs more] That’s how I contribute [Ryan laughs] to this family!

Selena:
‘Cause I like bread. [Chuckling] No, just kidding.

Ryan:
But there’s those smaller seasons—

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
That we don’t recognize that we’re in them. And so, a lot of times what a couple will do is they’ll—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Say, “We can’t connect! It’s weeks since we’ve connected. I feel like our marriages is falling away from us.”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Or, “We’ve not had sex in”— We’ve even had couples to say they’ve not had sex for months and years.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Okay. I would venture to say that that’s, if you see that the right way, that’s a season that obviously it’s not healthy! Right?

Selena:
Right.
Ryan:
And so, we want to get back to that. But how can that draw you closer to God?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
How can it draw you closer to loving more like He loves?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Again, I’m not meaning to gloss over anyone’s particular circumstance. I think there’s always room for getting counseling in hard times.

Selena:
Absolutely.

Ryan:
You don’t just sit and endure it.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
You can get counseling. You can… move forward.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Get good, Godly advice.

Selena:
Well, and I— Yeah.

Ryan:
Mentorship advice.

Selena:
Counselors, they help us see maybe the bigger purpose within the season.

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
Right? They can help us—

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
See… that, okay, maybe you’re not connecting because of X, Y and Z.

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
Or maybe sex is hard because of X, Y and Z.

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
That’s the importance, I think, of bringing somebody else into these seasons.

Ryan:
Yeah. No, that’s good. I wanted to— I’m looking up a quote by G.K. Chesterton, and I can’t find it, but… I wanted to look real quick at the types of seasons. Right? ‘Cause not all seasons are created equal. We’ve talked about big seasons, smaller seasons, but also the seasons themselves. Okay.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
So, think about a year, right, and if you’re not—

Selena:
A calendar year.

Ryan:
A calendar yeah.

Selena:
Got’cha.

Ryan:
Think about the four seasons.

Selena:
Yep!

Ryan:
Spring, summer, winter, or autumn, winter [Ryan laughs and Selena chuckles]. I had to think, “What are they?” [Both laugh] Okay. So, they each have kind of their own purpose. Right?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And God created the world to operate…

Selena:
With order. And—

Ryan:
It’s heliocentric, right?

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
We go around the sun.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
We’re on an axis. Right? So, there’s an order to it. And how God created—

Selena:
Mm-hm. A very delicate and intentional. Yeah.

Ryan:
To have seasons!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
What gets me about this is the Bible and all of our faith comes from the Middle East, which probably didn’t get the same seasons. [Chuckles]

Selena:
Sure.

Ryan:
If you’re in the U.S., we get way more seasons than—

Selena:
Right. They’re very—

Ryan:
They probably got in the Middle East. And so, think about spring. It’s a time for growth, an explosion of new life.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Summer is a time for preparing for the harvest. Right?

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Almost like a celebration, almost like an enjoyment of the rest of the year. Then you have fall, where you’re actually harvesting. Win— or autumn if you want to be sophisticated about it [Selena chuckles], where you’re actually celebrating the harvest and you’re doing the work! Summer is also a time of work, as well.

Selena:
Mm-hm, mm-hm.

Ryan:
And then you have winter, where it’s more of a time of hunkering down. Right?

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Everything kind of goes into hibernation and sleep. And so, think about how those different seasons could be analogous to life.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Right? There’s winter seasons, where it feels like we’re barely getting by.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Food is scarce; it’s hard to keep the home warm.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
We’re burning a lot of firewood, keeping the home warm.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And then, what happens in the spring? That dormant life—

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
That you’ve… survived with.

Selena:
Right.
Ryan:
Springs into life, right?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
So, I think it’s really interesting.

Selena:
Yeah! There’s a lot of, I think, metaphor and analogy behind all of it.

Ryan:
And how the rhythms of life are glorifying to God, even—

Selena:
Absolutely.

Ryan:
So, He didn’t have to create these seasons in this way.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
He didn’t have to. Also, every day… is a new day. What happens when you go to sleep?

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Right? It’s almost like a reset button for your heart and your mind.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
As your mind gets tired.

Selena:
So good.

Ryan:
He didn’t have to make the sun set every day. He didn’t have to make humans with a 24 hour, like, we sleep for eight hours. We’re awake for 16.

Selena:
[Laughing] Right! I know they have—

Ryan:
Right? Some of that’s adaptive. I know there’s a lot of anthropological reasons, but… [Selena laughs] and cultural reasons. But still.

Selena:
Right, right! No, we could have just been awake for 36 hours and slept for two hours or something like that, you know? There’s just—

Ryan:
That would be rad! [Selena laughs] Well, that would be worse for us, though, ‘cause we wouldn’t learn to rest in the Lord. Right?

Selena:
Right! [Ryan snickers] I’m just thinking, “Well, what if God cre—”

Ryan:
I’d be a workaholic, for sure.

Selena:
“What if God created us to do that?” You know?
Ryan:
Yeah, of course.

Selena:
So, identifying kind of the seasons you’re in, just kind of how do we do that? I think that’s kind of one of the questions that would come to mind when you’re like, “Okay, I hear what you’re saying about seasons. How do I know what season I’m in?” I mean, maybe you do know. Maybe you’re like, “I know exactly what season we’re in,” but maybe you’re kind of like, “Well, I feel like things are good.”

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
“And we don’t really argue a whole lot.” So, I guess my challenge would be for you to just kind of find out those tension points.

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
What are you arguing most about, or what are you most kind of apathetic about? Or saying, “Oh, things are good.” That’s fine.

Ryan:
Hm!

Selena:
‘Cause I feel like that’s where my blind spots tend to be, is where I’m like, “Oh yeah! Communication’s fine!” Or, “Sex is good. Didn’t we just do it like a day or two ago, or whatever?” And you’re like, “It’s been like a week.” [Laughs] You know what I mean?

Ryan:
[Chuckling] Right.

Selena:
It’s like you…

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
We need to kind of talk to each other about this, to try to get kind of this temperature on where we’re at. And knowing, I think, and we’ve said this a lot, but why do we need to know the season we’re in? There’s wisdom in knowing what season we’re in. I think we always say Psalm 90:12, “Teach me to number my days, so that I may gain a heart of wisdom.” But when we know that we are… in a time of… springtime, right?

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
We know that things are kind of good. We’re just enjoying, and we’re celebrating. And I think that’s a grace of God, that’s a gift of God, to be connecting, to be laughing together, to being on that same page. Do we know that it’s going to be like that always?

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
Yeah, no. We know it’s not going to be like that always.

Ryan:
Mm!

Selena:
But we don’t have to let that knowledge take away from the moment that we’re in, and the season that we’re in. Enjoy those seasons!

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
Remember those seasons. Write those seasons down, and praise God for those seasons! But also…

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Know that when you’re in the midst of a storm, it’s a moment, it’s a “season,” this storm. Right? It’s not just storms forever and ever and ever.

Ryan:
Yeah. Everything that we’re saying comes back… It’s about perspective and patience, I think.

Selena:
Mm. Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Because so much of the early church, even— I’m reading a book right now called The Patient Ferment of the Early Church.

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
It’s by Alan Kreider, I think. It’s all about how did the early church come to life in the middle of the Roman Empire, with—

Selena:
Hmm.

Ryan:
Everything that was happening there, and Jewish culture and Greek culture and all these different things… And patience is the refrain of the early church.

Selena:
Hm.

Ryan:
Patience, patience. Not a lot of evangelism, but patience.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Let what is there happen the way it’s supposed to happen. Let the Holy Spirit work. And so, patience and perseverance and perspective—

Selena:
So good.

Ryan:
Meaning, yeah, we’re in a storm!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Right? But who is in the boat? Who’s in the bow of the ship?

Selena:
Right. Jesus.

Ryan:
Our Savior.

Selena:
Yes! [Giggles lightly] Yes.

Ryan:
Jesus is in the bow of the ship, and He has this, and we trust Him. And what happens when we wake Him up, and we start shouting and we panic [Selena chuckles] like the disciples did? He says, “Oh, you of little faith.”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
“Did you forget who I am? Did you forget that I am here?”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
“That I am with you? That I’m not going to abandon you?”

Selena:
Like, I create— Yeah.

Ryan:
“That I command this storm?”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
“And, being that I can command it to be quiet, did it occur to you that maybe I commanded it to not be quiet for this moment?”

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
“Could that be that that storm serves a purpose?”

Selena:
Hmm.

Ryan:
Right? In this case, the narrative of the Bible, we can learn from it, right?

Selena:
Right! [Laughs] Right.

Ryan:
But so those seasons are— Yeah, I don’t know.

Selena:
They all have a purpose, and I think that—

Ryan:
Patience, purpose, perspective. Yeah.

Selena:
Yes, yes. And that’s oftentimes maybe we’re looking for the next answer, or the next solution, and it might just be being patient.

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
It might be saying, “Okay, wisdom says I just need to be patient right now. Wisdom says I need to be in God’s word right now, no matter how I feel or how I want to respond. I need to be patient,”

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
Maybe we’re feeling cold right now. [Ryan snickers] He or she is out there.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And I just need to pray for them, and I need to be patient. And there’s freedom in that, right? There’s freedom in knowing that—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
That God is at work in their heart, even if we don’t see that. There’s freedom in knowing. I mean, I think somebody would be like, “Well, we’re rebuilding trust in our marriage. How can I have freedom in that?” Right?

Ryan:
Well, what is love according to 1 Corinthians 13?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
What’s the first thing that Paul says love is?

Selena:
[Quietly] Patient.

Ryan:
[Snickers] Love is patient!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
It’s funny how patience precedes kindness in that case, right? [Selena snickers] “Love is patient, love is kind.” Okay, so what do I do? I’m patient, and I’m still kind.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Right?

Selena:
Hmm.

Ryan:
And I’m not holding it against them. I’m still hoping all things.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Love hopes all things, bears all things.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Right! Hoping for the best. So… And expecting it to come around. Expecting the spring to come.

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
Hoping spring will come.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Holding out for that. Not because you’re going to make it through, but because God is faithful, right? And you know what? Even if spring never comes, right? ‘Cause there are couples who never see that new season.

Selena:
In their marriage, yeah.

Ryan:
They can still be satisfied in Christ. You can still have everything you need.

Selena:
Mmm…

Ryan:
We joked about this verse, but it’s so true. “Man does not live on bread alone, but every word that precedes from the mouth of God.”

Selena:
Mmm. Right.

Ryan:
So, that was Jesus’s response to the tempter—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
When He said, “All I need are the words of my Father.” And He was starving in the desert. He was being tempted with every worldly kind of…

Selena:
Fleshly…

Ryan:
Gain.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Fleshly thing that He could want. And still, He said, “Man does not live on bread alone.” So, in the middle of our temptation to quit, to give up, to say, “Uncle!”

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
To these things, we’re saying that patience, perseverance, perspective, because when we see that these seasons are all a means to a greater end of letting us know God, now we can actually move forward! Now we can say, “I’m actually standing for something! I’m not just trying to survive, but I’m actually standing on faith because God has given me His word to stand on!”

Selena:
Yeah! So good.

Ryan:
Right? And so that—

Selena:
So good!

Ryan:
I think… so much of seasons is identifying you’re in them and then realizing that there’s a bigger narrative happening, right?

Selena:
Right, absolutely! And because it gives you freedom and assurance to go through the seasons. I don’t have to deny that they’re happening. I don’t have to ignore them. I don’t have to post something that acts like I’m not going through them; not that you need to… Social media is just not the platform to air out everything. [Ryan snickers] Let’s just— That’s a whole ‘nother… episode or season of episodes. But…

Ryan:
[Laughing] Season of episodes.

Selena:
[Laughs briefly] I think that we can have freedom to say this is where we’re at, and we can say that to our community. Right? That’s what a body of believers should be for, in some ways, is… If Ryan and I are having a hard time, we can have the freedom to say we’re having a hard time right now. We’re having a hard time with A, B and C. Can you help us? Can you pray for us? Is there something that we’re missing here?

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
Maybe where our expectations are wrong, because we’re thinking we’re in a different season than we’re in?

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
And so, I guess I just would say, “Why should we know what season we’re in? What is the purpose of knowing that we’re going through a hard time, or, hey, we’re celebrating, we’re in the harvest time? Because in those times, there’s just different expectations. There’s different things to… glean, I think, from those seasons. When things are good, and when I say good, I’m saying we are healthy. We have healthy children. We have a home, a roof over our head. We have heat in our house. We have food in our fridge. That is a richly blessed life right there. There are many people that do not have that.

Ryan:
Mm-hm.
Selena:
Even in our country, down our street.

Ryan:
And we’re thankful! Yeah.

Selena:
And that gives my heart just—

Ryan:
I would argue the majority don’t have that.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
They don’t have a healthy marriage. They don’t feel like… By God’s grace, our children will love Him. We’re praying that they get to know and love Jesus.

Selena:
Right. But I’m just saying we’re not in a hospital next to our child.

Ryan:
Right, right, yes!

Selena:
And that makes me… so grateful! To tears grateful. And do I pray for the people that I see whose children are fighting for their lives?

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
Absolutely! Because they’re in a different season, and they need my prayers and support. They need…

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
What? You want to say—

Ryan:
No, that’s so good. We follow an account, LindsayLetters, I think “.co” on Instagram.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
They’re great people. Incredible people.

Selena:
I’m sure people have heard of them.

Ryan:
Yeah, I’m sure. We’ve talked about them in the past. It’s Lindsay and Dugan Sherbondy, I think is how you say the name? And they had their daughter…

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
It was in October, I think. And she was a freak accident! She was riding on a golf cart, fell out, hit her head on a rock and is brain damaged.

Selena:
Mm-hm…

Ryan:
And so—

Selena:
And they’re working through that!

Ryan:
So, that is a dark season for them.

Selena:
Phew, yeah… Yeah.

Ryan:
And… the thing is, I’ve been following Dugan closely ‘cause I’m just like…

Selena:
For months, yeah.

Ryan:
In tears! Weeping.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
I was up hours at night crying over this. I don’t know what happened. I was just so… filled with empathy for this family—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
‘Cause their daughter reminded me of our oldest.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
I couldn’t imagine going through that. [Inhales deeply] And what did they do? Is that they said, “This is the season that we have. These are the ingredients.”

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
“How is this going to help me know God and trust God more?”

Selena:
Mmm… Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And their faith has been so steadfast. I am baffled!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
I am baffled. Granted, yes, they’ve had excruciating pain.

Selena:
Yeah! There’s been moments. I mean, we’re seeing Instagram stories, which we all know how those get written.

Ryan:
Mm-hm!

Selena:
But they’ve also been transparent, and you know every— just be a human, and you know that there are in between moments of hospitals, nurses, changing staff, all the…
Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Things that you have to deal with in between that are not online. Right? That you don’t see.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And their faith has been… steadfast and refined and built, and—

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
They’ve been so gracious to share their story. And I mean, there’s another story that I’ve been following, where the outcome wasn’t so great with the baby, you know?

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
And it’s like, “Wow, God. You are still good.” And she’s recognizing that, and I… could not imagine. It’s the same age as our baby, and then there’s things that that God is doing in and through His people in different seasons. And I think that…

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
For us to recognize this season we’re in, but the season that other people are in as well.

Ryan:
Another example is Tina Konkin! We just interviewed her.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And it will be live at some point in the future. But she has a book out. [Selena chuckles] It’s called, “How God Used the Other Woman.”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And so, her husband had an affair.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And she—

Selena:
With her best friend.

Ryan:
And she says this in the interview! She says this on our interview, that it was the catalyst for her… changing her entire life in a very positive way!

Selena:
Yeah.
Ryan:
That her marriage, after that affair, was beyond her imagination, how good it was.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
Right! So, what is that other than seeing the season for what it is?

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
Obviously, going to God, saying, “God help me!” Which there was a two-year period of mourning and rebuilding trust.

Selena:
Mmm. Mm-hm.

Ryan:
All right. Two years feels short when you say it like that.

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
But when you’re in two years, it’s forever!

Selena:
It’s a long time.

Ryan:
It is forever, when you’re dealing with a hardship for two years.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And so, here she endured. She stuck with that, went with the season.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And what happened is the season turned.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And God was glorified. That doesn’t always happen! God gets glorified in every way, but and the seasons don’t always turn how we hope they will.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
Well, I mean—

Selena:
But we can still respond.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
God shows us how we can respond.

Ryan:
Mm.
Selena:
‘Cause there’s ways that we should respond, there’s ways that we respond and probably shouldn’t respond, right? But because we have freedom in Christ to respond with thankfulness, with joy, we can have a peace…

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
Knowing peace that comes from Jesus, knowing because we’re in that season that God is at work in us. We can have peace no matter the season. And our church is in Philippians right now, and we’re talking about how— what I walked away with from Sunday was that obviously none of us are above going through pain and trials and hurt and sin.

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
We’re all flesh.

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
We’re all humans. It’s our response, because of who is in us and who we’re centered around. It’s our response to those things—

Ryan:
Mm…

Selena:
That allows God to be glorified, and it allows us to be sanctified, and for us to also enjoy the good things of God as well.

Ryan:
Mm. Yeah.

Selena:
So, that being said is we can be consumed by the things of God. We can respond with joy [Sniffs in], excuse me, and gratefulness because of the work that He’s doing in us.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
In those hard seasons. And even in the good seasons, He is still at work. He’s still at work.

Ryan:
Yeah. Yeah. You have Colossians 3 in here. I want to read it. It says, “Set your minds on things above.” Seek the things that are above. “Put to death earthly things in you.” Colossians 3:5.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
“Put to death therefore what is earthly in you.” That’s… So, Jesus came. He talked about peace. Jesus said, John 14:27, “My peace I give you, my peace I leave with you.” What? “Not as the world gives give I unto you.”

Selena:
Mm…
Ryan:
It’s otherworldly!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Okay. So, then when we see Paul here saying, “Put to death therefore what is earthly in you.”

Selena:
Sorry. I just want to stop here. If it’s other worldly, it means it’s not based on something, our peace is not found on something in this world. Our peace is found on something, on Someone.

Ryan:
It comes, and it originates outside of us.

Ryan:
Outside of us.

Ryan:
Outside of this world.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
It comes from Christ himself.

Selena:
A holy and heavenly place.

Ryan:
The God of the universe.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And so, we’re putting to death what’s earthly in us. We’re taking on ourselves the peace of Christ that is other worldly, that is from outside of this world.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
It’s not of this world.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Because we’re not of this world!

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
If we’re in Him.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And so, that in itself, that truth in itself, it sounds like a pat answer when you’re going through pain.

Selena:
Right.
Ryan:
So, if someone’s going through pain in a painful season, and you know somebody, don’t just go throw the Bible verse at’em.

Selena:
Mm-mm!

Ryan:
Just sit with them! Just mourn with them.

Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
Cry.

Selena:
Be with them.

Ryan:
Bring them dinner.

Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
Hold their hand, give’em a hug. Just be a loving neighbor, a loving friend.

Selena:
Right. And have patience!

Ryan:
A family member. Have patience.

Selena:
‘Cause the moments will come when they’re going to need God’s word to be…

Ryan:
When they’re going to need actual guidance.

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
Or steps for, I won’t say actual guidance.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Steps forward.

Selena:
I think it’s recognizing the seasons again, right?

Ryan:
And verses. Yeah… Yeah.

Selena:
Okay. Trauma’s happen. It’s not a time to throw the Bible; it’s a time to just—

Ryan:
It’s triage.

Selena:
Embrace!

Ryan:
Stop the bleeding!

Selena:
Yep! Just stop the bleeding.
Ryan:
Yeah, yeah.

Selena:
And Colossians 3:12-17. So, I’ve been going through Colossians with some of the ladies in our community group, and it’s been… mind-blowing, still. [Ryan chuckles] We just have been reading the whole book of Colossians every week or so. And verses 12-17, I think, help us to… know how to respond to different seasons.

Ryan:
Hm.

Selena:
And we don’t respond differently. We can respond the same. We may feel things differently. We might deal with different emotions in different seasons, but our response can still be the same because of the work. And God is getting us to those points of being able to respond how He would want us to respond, ‘cause we’re not there yet, right? We still have these fleshly emotions and anger and outbursts and frustrations. I’m just talking about myself.

Ryan:
[Quietly snickers] Yeah.

Selena:
But Colossians 3:12-17, “Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you must also forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.”

Ryan:
Aw, man…

Selena:
And this is saying this all the time, not just…

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
In whatever season we’re in, we can put on, as God’s holy and beloved people, compassionate hearts. We can be kind in the midst of trials.

Ryan:
That’s an adorning. It’s wearing something that’s otherwise on the shelf.

Selena:
Mmm…

Ryan:
It’s taking it off the shelf and choosing it.

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
Choosing compassion.

Selena:
And sometimes—

Ryan:
Choosing kindness.

Selena:
Those seasons require us to do that.

Ryan:
Yes. To consciously choose it. Right? And then verse 15, “Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts.” Who rules other than a king, right? So, let it rule as a king.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Well, let the peace of the king rule in your hearts. And we subject ourselves—

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
To its governance.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Right?

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Not the worldly governance and circumstance and what our friends are chirping off in our ears—

Selena:
Mmm…

Ryan:
Or our brothers- and sisters-in-law, or mothers-in-law, fathers-in-law.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Or mothers and fathers! [Selena subdues a laugh] Or whoever’s chirping this stuff, that’s not going to rule in my heart!

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
The peace of Christ. I’m letting the peace of Christ rule in my heart. And then, what does it say? It says, “Then,” secondly, “Let the word of God dwell in you richly.”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Let it live. And then, how does that work? Teaching and admonishing one another. So, that’s the picture of a local church.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
“In all wisdom and community—”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
“Singing psalms, singing hymns and spiritual songs.” With who? Together!

Selena:
Hmm…

Ryan:
By yourself? Sure. But together!

Selena:
Something about cooperate worship.

Ryan:
This is a letter to a church!

Selena:
Absolutely.

Ryan:
And, “With thankfulness in your hearts to God.” So, I mean, there’s just so much to be said for recognizing. We’re summarizing a little bit now, but…

Selena:
That’s right.

Ryan:
Knowing what a season is.

Selena:
Yeah. Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Recognizing when you’re in the season, knowing how to respond…

Selena:
Because of Christ.

Ryan:
Because of Christ in those seasons.

Selena:
Because of the word of God. Yeah.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Yep, yep! And so, that being said, when your spouse is not… You guys are feeling disconnected. We can still love each other actively. Right?

Ryan:
Mm!

Selena:
Because of what we believe love to be, and how it’s defined in God’s word. We can—

Ryan:
I want to take a moment and interrupt you here.

Selena:
Okay.
Ryan:
The actions of love are not contingent upon the affection of love.

Selena:
Yep!

Ryan:
Okay?

Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
And that’s one of the big things that we forget in our flesh. I think if anybody who’s been to church knows that love is an action, but we’re here to remind you when it’s hard, when your marriage feels hard, these seasons are difficult, that is the time better than any other to display and depend on the actions of love more than you display or more than you depend on the affections of love. So, yeah!

Selena:
Yeah, and I—

Ryan:
I wanted to jump in and say that.

Selena:
Thank you. ‘Cause I think that’s what I’m saying and I’m hearing, but I’m not… [Laughing] saying, if that makes sense.

Ryan:
[Chuckling] It’s okay! It’s okay.

Selena:
I think it’s good that you brought that to light more. So, kind of just briefly about how… You know, I think we’ve kind of talked about how we can, if we’re going through the hard season, we’re recognizing it’s a hard season. How can we…

Ryan:
Maybe endure well?

Selena:
Endure well, yeah! And I think…

Ryan:
Or even get through to the other side.

Selena:
Well, and Colossians speaks to it.

Ryan:
In a timely way.

Selena:
“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly.” Be in God’s word! Be in the word, even if you don’t feel like it. Even if it doesn’t feel like it’s doing anything, be in it! It’s not going to hurt you! [Laughs]

Ryan:
Well, that’s what it means by letting it dwell in you.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Is you’re still… you’re still letting it live there.
Selena:
And it’s living and active, right?

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And so, we’re putting that in there.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Worship God! Sing songs! Be grateful! [Chuckle] And bring others! I think exposing yourself to your community, as well—

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
And telling them where you’re at and not just lying to them, basic— Well, not lying. That’s a very harsh word. But, be honest and transparent in a healthy way, because, again, this is the function of community. This is how God works.

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
And we are the hands and feet of Jesus, right? And we’re loving each other through this. So…

Ryan:
That’s good. So, this goes back down to our beliefs, so I just want to make a quick mention here. We always talk about love and covenant, right? And the biblical definitions of both.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
This is why they’re so important, because when you submit yourself to God’s definition of covenant, and you take that and say, “This is what our marriage is.”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
“It’s not just something that we decided to do.”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And I’m not talking shotgun weddings, I’m talking about…

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Or like a Vegas wedding. I’m talking about people who get married in the Christian church—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And they don’t realize what covenant is.
Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
And we’re saying that covenant is a reflection of God’s covenantal character.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And His covenants that He made with His people.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Okay? That’s not something that just dissolves lightly.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
It never really dissolves.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
And so, when we are committed to His definition of covenant, then we say, “Okay! We’re not going anywhere.”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
“I want and need to reconcile. And whenever there’s a hard thing, okay, now, how do I do that?” For now we have His definition of love.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
It’s selfless.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
It’s patient. It’s kind. It’s actions oriented.

Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
Not emotions based.

Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
And so, I think—

Selena:
The things of God are not based on seasons. God is outside of the seasons.

Ryan:
They’re timeless. Mm. They’re—

Selena:
And so…

Ryan:
They’re always timely ‘cause they’re always timeless.

Selena:
Absolutely!

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
So, I think the Conversation Challenge here would be what season is your marriage in? What season are you guys in? Maybe you know exactly, again, like we said at the beginning.

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
You know it, exactly where you’re at. Maybe it’s going to take some time and prayer and…

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
Time in the word, time with God, and godly friends to kind of sort through where you’re at. Maybe you’re feeling something and you’re getting some sense of just disconnection. There’s fighting. There’s just this this lack! And so—

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
You’re trying to figure out, “Okay. Are we just in a season of dealing with a few things, or are there bigger… problems and roots—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
That are things that are blooming that shouldn’t be blooming. So—

Ryan:
It may be a helpful exercise to… think through the seasons in terms of summer—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Fall—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Winter, spring.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
If you can’t think of, “Oh, I’m in this season X, Y and Z,” just say, “Ah, it feels like winter right now.”

Selena:
[Snicker] Yeah.
Ryan:
Or, “It feels like summer!”

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
“It feels great.”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Or whatever that season is.

Selena:
And share that with other people, and get—

Ryan:
Yeah. That’s good.

Selena:
Get in community with that.

Ryan:
Okay! Selena’s going to go take care of the baby, I think.

Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
And I’m going to close us out. So, let me pray for us. And then… Yeah. Maybe you come back and say, “Stay fierce.” All right? So, come back! [Chuckles] We have a babysitter. Anyway.

God, thank you so much for this time with our listeners. I pray that You would… help them to understand maybe the purpose of seasons, and what You’re trying to do through seasons of marriage and through seasons of life. God, and I pray that You’d help them identify those seasons. God, I pray that You would help them seek You, and understand that every season is meant to glorify You and to bring them closer to You, to increase their knowledge of You and Your character. And I pray that You would just comfort them in that. Holy Spirit, comfort the couples [Baby begins crying in background] wherever they’re at. Father, I thank you for the marriages that are thriving and strong. I thank You that You are helping them every step of the way, to endure whatever is coming their way. So, Lord, again, be glorified in us and through us. In Jesus name, Amen.

All right! Ladies and gentlemen, thank you once again for joining us for the Fierce Marriage Podcast. This episode is—

Selena:
In the can! [Both chuckle]

Ryan:
[Chuckling] All right. We will see you in about seven days, and until next time—

Selena:
[Tiredly states] Stay fierce. [Baby cries louder and Ryan chuckles]

<Ending Sequence>

Podcast ends.