Accountability, Challenges, Podcast

Trusting Your Gauges in Times of Anxiety and Worry

Sometimes it feels like your “flying blind” in marriage and in life. What should we do when our feelings tell us things that are contrary to God’s truth? We must learn to trust our gauges. In this episode, Ryan and Selena discuss three truths about “gauges” and how to trust them when you feel disoriented in life and marriage.

Transcript Shownotes

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Scripture, Show Notes, and Resources Mentioned

  • [00:15:00]
    • Dr. Randy Alcorn’s book: Heaven
  • [00:25:00]
    • Scripture Reference:
      • II Timothy 2:13, ESV
  • [00:30:06]
    • Scripture Reference:
      • Philippians 4:6a, paraphrase, NIV
  • [00:34:52]
    • Scripture Reference:
      • Philippians 4:6b-7, paraphrase, NIV
      • John 14:27, paraphrase, ESV
      • Isaiah 40:30-31, paraphrase, ESV
      • I Corinthians 3:16, mis-referenced:
        • Correct reference: II Timothy 3:16, paraphrase, ESV
    • More information on sola scriptura:

Full Episode Transcript

Selena:
“Even youth grow tired and weary and young men stumble and fall. But those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary. They will walk and not be faint.”

Ryan:
Yeah. Man, I love that verse.

Selena:
Isaiah 40:30-31.

Ryan:
So, this is one of those episodes where… we’ve kind of wrestled through this and previous things that we’ve written! And recently, we’ve just kind of had to deal with, specifically Selena! [Selena laughs] Even, well, I mean…

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
Being honest—

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
You’ve dealt with some anxiety, some stress, some worry.

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
And so, I just got to thinking, man… This is really a matter of trusting our gauges, and we’re going to talk about what that means! But when this verse says, “But those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength,” what does it mean to hope in the Lord?

Selena:
Mmm…

Ryan:
All right. It sounds super obvious. But you know what? There’s a lot that can be said around… the life of a Christian, the marriage between two Christian people, and how we place our hope in the Lord, trusting that He will renew our strength.

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
So, we’re going to talk through some very specific things about what it means to hope in the Lord, in other words, to trust our gauges. And yeah, I think it should be a fairly good conversation.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Maybe great conversation. Anyway! [Selena chuckles] Regardless of what happens, we’ll see you on the other side.

[00:01:18]

<Intro Sequence>

[00:01:51]
Selena:
Do we ever actually see people on the other side?

Ryan:
Mm-ahhh… [Selena laughs] It’s figure of speech! “See you later!”

Selena:
See you later… alligator.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
[Selena chuckles and they both respond in unison] Yeah! [Selena laughs harder]

Ryan:
So, we’ve tried to do the podcast during nap times… but our—

Selena:
That never goes well.

Ryan:
Daughter doesn’t [Chuckles]— Her naps have been very short!

Selena:
She’s a 45-minute napper! We’re trying to kick it back, but I can’t even keep her awake to kick it back. So, I know!

Ryan:
And we’ve—

Selena:
But she’s on a schedule naturally, so, I feel like that’s better than the first two. The first two, I was like, “I don’t know. Just sleep, I guess.” [Laughs]

Ryan:
That’s true. It’s true. This one’s a little bit more predictable, but—

Selena:
Little bit! We’re different parents.

Ryan:
As far as when she goes to sleep.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
I feel like she wakes up way sooner than we expect every time.

Selena:
That’s just nap time, I think [Ryan laughs]. But anyways, Louisa is with us again. Just the way things worked out today. So, lucky all of you to get to be with her, too. [Selena laughs]

Ryan:
So, if you’re new to the Fierce Marriage Podcast, I’m Ryan. This is my lovely wife, Selena. We haven’t done that a long time, so, we’re Ryan and Selena Frederick. [Selena laughs] We created this thing called Fierce Marriage [Ryan chuckles] a number of years ago.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Like, five or six years ago, and—

Selena:
Six or seven almost, babe.

Ryan:
Oh, my goodness! [Ryan exhales] That’s a lot. That’s a long time to be doing this. But it’s been a blast! [Selena chuckles] God has worked in us and through us throughout that process. We’ve been married going on—

Selena:
[From the background] 16.

Ryan:
17 years. It’d be 17 years this September.

Selena:
Whoops! [Giggles]

Ryan:
Then we dated for four years before that. So, we’d love to get to know ya! And the way you can get to know us a little bit is to get on to our website, fiercemarriage.com. There’s an “About Us” tab somewhere on there! [Selena giggles] You can learn more about us! But anyway. Thank you for joining us for this podcast episode.

Selena:
We’re just opening the can! It felt like—

Ryan:
We’re just opening the can.

Selena:
It felt like you should say the last part. [Laughing]

Ryan:
Well, open what can?

Selena:
Like this, “And this episode!” that’s had that sort of sound and the same ring.

Ryan:
Oh. [Chuckles] Okay.

Selena:
Okay! It’s just in my head.

Ryan:
‘Cause we usually end it with, “This episode’s in the can,” and so—

Selena:
It’s been a crazy day, people. It’s been a crazy day.

Ryan:
It’s not in the can yet. It’s—

Selena:
It’s—

Ryan:
It’s being… prepared!

Selena:
It’s being put in the can!

Ryan:
Yeah. [Selena cackles] So, yeah. We’ve had a bit of a hectic few days! And so, this episode is birthed out of that. Namely, I had to fix a window! I had to replace a window for the first time yesterday, and that… I almost cut my fingers off because I was opening a thing and I had a razor blade and I made a stupid mistake, and I think I sliced it down to the bone, like a full knuckle width!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Like from second knuckle to third knuckle. Like—

Selena:
On your middle finger?

Ryan:
That length!

Selena:
Yuck!

Ryan:
Yeah. So, my middle finger’s useless now. I usually us it a lot!

Selena:
Just cut it off! [Ryan snickers]. You might not need it.

Ryan:
I use it a lot when I’m driving. [Selena laughs] I’m kidding! [Ryan laughs]

Selena:
[Laughing] Stop!

Ryan:
[Laughing] I’m kidding!

Selena:
Oh my gosh.

Ryan:
I’m kidding!! I’m kidding. But you know, you never [Selena chuckles] know what— You take them for granted.

Selena:
You never know when you’re going to need your fingers? [Ryan laughs and Selena snickers]

Ryan:
[Laughing] You never know when you need your middle finger to be in tip-top shape!

Selena:
Oh, my goodness.

Ryan:
No, but you do take your fingers for granted when they’re cut to the bone.

Selena:
All right. Well, thanks for listening [Ryan chuckles], everybody!

Ryan:
[Chuckling] Yeah, when we’re—

Selena:
We just want to put that out there. Just a little thank you for listening. Thank you for if you have rated and reviewed this podcast, thank you for doing that. If you have not, and you’ve been on the fence, go ahead and hit that five stars! [Ryan snickers] It’s real easy—

Ryan:
You’re not supposed to sa—

Selena:
Really gratifying.

Ryan:
You’re not supposed to say that, but—

Selena:
Okay. Go ahead and hit as many stars as you would like.

Ryan:
As long as it’s five or more. [Both chuckle]

Selena:
No. It just helps us get the word out.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And people read the comments. We read the comments, just trying to get a pulse on…

[00:05:01]
Ryan:
Yes.

Selena:
What we can… talk about and how we can be…

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
Better used by the Lord. [Baby coos and blows raspberries]

Ryan:
Yeah, yeah. [Selena giggles] And that’s how the internet works! Ratings and reviews are very important. So, and typically, again, we like to remind you, if you have any questions, you go to fiercemarriage.com/ask, A-S-K, or /podcast. Actually, go to /podcast, because that’s where the little button is to fill out the form, or you can call in or text 971-333-1120. And I have, actually, there’s some special things I want to throw out there today!

Selena:
Ooh!

Ryan:
We have, being that Valentine’s Day is…

Selena:
Oh, boy…

Ryan:
Is a week from Friday at the time of recording this, so—

Selena:
Got your gift! Did you get mine?

Ryan:
I did!

Selena:
Oh, look at us!

Ryan:
You gonna love it!

Selena:
That’s winning, guys! We don’t get gifts very often. And never before the due date.

Selena:
How much did you spend?

Selena:
[Smacks lips] That’s none of your business.

Ryan:
I spent $45.

Selena:
It’s my money.

Ryan:
I spent $40…

Selena:
Close to that.

Ryan:
Well, how dare you!! [Selena laughs] I’m only worth $40 to you?! [Ryan laughs]

Selena:
More! I put—No, I did more.

Ryan:
Well, I was 45, so I hope… [Laughs]

Selena:
You want me to tell you?

Ryan:
Are we—No! What? What?! Why? No. You always do that! Christmas comes. You’re like, “Hey, you want me to tell you what your gift is?” [Chuckles]

Selena:
Not gift! The amount.

Ryan:
Oh, yeah. Tell me the amount!

Selena:
No… I don’t want to!

Ryan:
Anyway. Hey, you don’t have to spend $45, by the way, to have a good Valentine’s Day.

Selena:
Right! We got books, right?! [Laughs]

Ryan:
Yeah! Okay! Sorry. [Selena laughs harder] It’s all right. Where I’m going with this is, we’re… [Selena laughs] we’re making our books available to you at an extra 15% off. Just go use the code, “VDay2020”. VDay2020 for shop.fiercemarriage.com. So, just go to our shop! You can find all of our books. Go to 31daypursuit.com or 40prayers.com. Anywhere takes you to the shop. And you can get another 15% off the lowest marked price! That’s good for about… 10 days.

Selena:
Books are always a good idea.

Ryan:
Yes.

Selena:
I love books!

Ryan:
So, VDay2020 gets you an extra 15%.

Selena:
I buy too many books. It’s good stuff.

Ryan:
Yeah! And then the other thing is, if you want to be part of our book launch that comes out in May—

Selena:
Ooh!

Ryan:
Go to seethroughbook.com. You’re are wanted and needed to be on the launch team!

Selena:
Yes, please!

Ryan:
If you are passionate about the idea of transparency in marriage and in life, as people called to live in the light as transmitters of the light, who is Jesus Christ… That book is all about that.

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
And in a marriage context. Go to seethroughbook.com. Okay! So, we’re seven minutes in. Thank you for listening to our fluff, by the way! [Selena snickers] It’s a lot of fun. We’re just warming up— This has been a really… long week. So…

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
So, we are… And I say long week, I mean seven days. It’s Monday when we’re recording this! It comes out tomorrow. [Laughs]

Selena:
Yeah. But it was been a long—

Ryan:
But, the seven days have been long.

Selena:
Past couple weeks.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Yeah, yeah.

Ryan:
So, thanks for bearing with us here! Okay! So, we’re talking about specifically trusting your gauges and what that means for… dealing with anxiety, dealing with issues of worry.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Or stress!

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Or just in general feeling out of sorts.

Selena:
And I—

Ryan:
Right?

Selena:
Yeah. And I have to say, this may date the episode, but this, I think was this, last week that the whole… the helicopter crash with Kobe Bryant and nine people tragically died, three of those being young teenagers and children, and it really just—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
You start to look at your humanity…

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And there’s just a lot around that, I think. And then I’m like, “Oh, I’m 37! I’m going to be 38 this year. Health things could start happening. Just… a lot—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Of stuff starts creeping in… And then, with a baby, there’s always kind of postpartum anxious thoughts and things around that, or what could happen to my children, and things that really are out of my control. Sometimes I go through these ups and downs of…

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Of worry and fear! And… I was up last night from about 2-4:30. Usually the baby wakes up at 2, but she didn’t, of course. Right? I’m trained, but of course. So…

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
Just kind of thinking, praying, trying to go back to sleep but couldn’t. So, decided to read the Bible, of course, and look up worry and anxiety or just fear. And Philippians 4, I think, came up, but then Matthew 6, the words of Jesus about do not be anxious. Matthew 6:26, “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, or what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing?” That’s verse 25. “Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they are? Which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life? And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field—”

Ryan:
Mm-hm!

Selena:
“How they grow: they neither toil nor spin, yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed in one of these. But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you—”

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
“O you of little faith? Do not be anxious about what we will eat or drink or wear. For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows them.” I’m sorry. I got to just keep reading this last one. Verse 33 and 34, “But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow—”

[00:10:05]
Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
“For tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day of its own trouble.” And the verse that really stood out to me is… Well, it was 28 or when he’s saying is not life, is not the body more than just food, and is not life more than just clothing—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And food.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
There’s so much more! And even the lilies of the field that are here today and gone tomorrow— It’s just painting that deep and rich picture that we often forget, which at least I do. And that caused a lot of fear inside of me. And Jesus’s words are don’t be anxious about tomorrow. Remember who your Father is. Remember how much He cares for you! Remember that… you saw Solomon in all of his glory, all of the riches of wealth, of the world… And yet he could not compete with the lilies of the field. There’s just so much— It just really comforted my heart at a deep level to be reminded again of who God is, of how anxiousness and fear doesn’t have a place in our hearts. And not to say that if there are people that struggle with really deep anxiety, and I’m not trying to say this is a trite answer, I’m just saying the more that I’m looking to the Lord, the more my fears can kind of dispel and kind of be subsided in some ways. But I was just— I don’t know! I have these moments of just deep fear. The reality of the world that we live in kind of hits me sometimes, and it’s a process of going to God’s word and taking those thoughts captive and putting them up against what He says. He says, “Don’t be anxious. I’ve not giving you a spirit of fear.” Well, how can His word say those things to me? Well, because He’s God and that’s His word, and that’s something I can trust. Right? And that’s what we’re talking about today—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Is trusting…

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Trusting God’s word.

Ryan:
Yeah. So, that’s Matthew 6, right?

Selena:
I did say that.

Ryan:
You did say that.

Selena:
I did say that.

Ryan:
I just want to confirm.

Selena:
Perfect.

Ryan:
So… I mean, obviously, that’s been a very powerful passage for you to go through the last day and even beyond that! But I love…

Selena:
Well, it just sort of hit me more last night—

Ryan:
Yes! Yes.

Selena:
In the middle of the night. There was just some… I think the Holy Spirit—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Was just ministering to me in my heart and my—

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
My pain and my fear and my… worry. Things that I couldn’t—

Ryan:
Yeah! And I—

Selena:
Do anything about.

Ryan:
I mean, there’s a lot happening there, and we’re going to get into trusting God’s word. You said we have to trust that He is God, and that’s a big thing to say! And often times we gloss over that like, “Yeah, trust God! Trust God!” [Selena laughs] What does it mean to actually trust, and how—

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
How does trust work? Okay. How do we trust God in a way that is not just… [Baby coos] There she is. How do we trust God in a way that’s not just…? I don’t know how to word this… It’s like we’re just resigning ourselves in a way that is giving up hope in a way.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Okay. So, you can resign yourself to it and say, “Okay…” I don’t know. It’s—

Selena:
It’s being inactive versus being like an active trust.

Ryan:
Yeah. So, trusting God takes faith, but there’s an active faith and an inactive faith.

Selena:
Sure!

Ryan:
And those aren’t biblical terms; those are Ryan Frederick terms. [Selena giggles] Okay. So, I’m kind of shooting from the hip here, but so, how do we trust God’s word is what it is? Well, first off, I love that the couple of paragraphs before where you started reading, he said, “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth where moth and rust destroy, where the thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven where neither moth nor rust destroys.”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
“And where thieves do not break in and steal, for where your treasure is there your heart will be also.” So, it’s amazing how there’s a progression… from putting your eternal worth, your earthly worth, laying up treasures, saving up treasures in a way, in heaven. Now, what does that mean? It means that our hope is in God. It’s not a prosperity thing. It’s not a “God owes me” thing. It’s a—

Selena:
No. It’s knowing our eternity and knowing—

Ryan:
My eternity is in Him!

Selena:
Who God is. Yep!

Ryan:
And so, I’m going to do things that are eternally minded.

Selena:
Mmm…

Ryan:
I’m going to think in a way that’s eternally… oriented. The perspective is eternal. [Both giggle]

Selena:
She’s sucking on her fingers. [Laughs]

Ryan:
She’s sucki— [Ryan chuckles] It’s the cutest thing. If we could show it, it would be amazing, but… [Selena laughs] Yeah. And so, it kind of precipitates this kind of trust in that that is the battle against anxiousness. So, the result of putting our treasure in heaven, it means that we kind of have a way to battle this stuff. So—

Selena:
Well, I think it puts things into perspective. Right?

Ryan:
Yeah. M’kay.

Selena:
We can have fear around things that we can’t control, or we can learn to trust God in the things that He’s given us!

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And be reminded of who He is, that no matter what—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Hard path that we know or may be unknown to us right now that we have to walk down, He will never leave us. Right? We have the promises of God.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
We have our gauges, which we’re going to talk about. We have the word—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And the Holy Spirit. So…

[00:15:00]
Ryan:
Yeah! Yeah. So, how does this relate to marriage? Okay. We’re talking about life in general, but there are certain instances in marriage…

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Where our trust is kind of being tested.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
It’s on the…

Selena:
Being tested, you mean with the Lord or with each other? Just to clarify.

Ryan:
With both! Okay?

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
But more on the deeper level, right? With God’s design for marriage, meaning that—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Do I trust this is for life?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Do I trust that God is going to use this for His good?

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
For His “glory”? Excuse me. And it’s something that I need to walk through that.

Selena:
Right. Because what we believe and what we feel can often seem—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Contradictory to what the word says and what our gauges say, right?

Ryan:
Yeah, yeah. And we’ll talk about the gauges thing comes from in just a second, but just to kind of maybe put some meat on these bones here. So, maybe one of these examples sounds familiar. Maybe if you’ve not been here, there’s a chance you know somebody who’s currently in one of these spots, or you’ve maybe been in one of these spots.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Or you’re headed into one of these spots. [Selena laughs] So… just kind of listen in and see if any of these apply. But so, you’ve been in the dry season emotionally and you don’t feel connected as a married couple, like you don’t “love each other anymore”.

Selena:
Mm…

Ryan:
You’ve fallen out of love.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Or at least it feels that way. That’s the first one. The second maybe trying time would be that you’re in the middle of a financial difficulty and you have no idea—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
What the future holds. You can’t seem to figure out how good rhythms between—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
A good job or maybe even how to make a job work—

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Or you just can’t find a way to be in agreement on these things.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Maybe it’s all about finances, but the finances are bringing other areas—

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Of worry and—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Distress and anxiety into your life and into your marriage.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Okay. So, that’s a marital issue because their finances are… [Selena chuckles] part of your marriage, right?

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
The third one is maybe you’ve lost your spouse’s trust, or they’ve done something to lose yours.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
And you’re unsure of how to rebuild. You don’t know—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Where to go, how to begin that path of re-strengthening, rebuilding, trust. All that kind of stuff.

Selena:
Mm. Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Another one is maybe life is changing rapidly, like you’ve got a new baby on the way or—

Selena:
Hello!

Ryan:
There’s a baby that just arrived.

Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
Or maybe you lost your job. Or if you’re a military family, maybe you’ve been deployed—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Suddenly.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Or there’s a number of things that can happen. Or maybe you had a tragic death in your family.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Or a tragic diagnosis!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
So, there’s a lot of ways that kind of the rapids change and your reality—

Selena:
Yeah…

Ryan:
Can create all kinds of uncertainty and stress, and you feel like in the middle of a storm and you are shouting, “Jesus, where are you?!” [Selena chuckles] And there He is in the bow of the ship.

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
Like we read in the Gospels.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And it’s hard for us to trust in those times.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And then the final example that hopefully will get you thinking is that maybe you argue more than you laugh as a couple.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And you can’t seem to agree on anything that matters. Maybe you feel like that’s the beginning of maybe a fracture—

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
In the foundation of your friendship or the foundation of your marriage!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And it’s worrying you.

Selena:
Mmm…

Ryan:
And you’re wondering where is this marriage headed—

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
And how can I stop it? So, that’s kind of where we’re coming at, from an anxiety/stress standpoint. There’s obviously countless other examples.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Maybe there’s—

Selena:
Just pick whatever [Chuckling] makes you…

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Worry or fear. And we all have those.

Ryan:
I mean, Selena’s talking about mortality!

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
She’s having a bit of an existential—I don’t want to say “crisis,” [Selena snickers] but it’s an existential…

Selena:
Well, none of us are—

Ryan:
Bout, if you will.

Selena:
Yeah! I mean none of us are getting out of this alive, right? And so, we are all going to die! And those are some big things to swallow. And you—

Ryan:
So, here you say that is a bit—

Selena:
Don’t know!

Ryan:
It’s a bit different, ’cause usually I’m the one—

Selena:
[Chuckling] I know.

Ryan:
I had heart problems.

Selena:
I know!

Ryan:
And I’m like, “Yeah. If I live to 50, I’m glad!”

Selena:
Yeah. And I’m—

Ryan:
And you’re like [Laughing], “Stop!”

Selena:
Well—

Ryan:
[Laughing] “Stop saying that!”

Selena:
And I think it’s Dr. Randy Alcorn has a book about heaven. And we don’t know much about it, as believers. And I think there’s more to be explored there and it can offer us some sort of peace and understanding.

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
But, for the here and now and the things that we deal with, what are my gauges, how do I trust, how do I disseminate these fears?

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
So, this is what we’re talking about!

Ryan:
So, keep bearing with us because we’re going to get into three really tangible ways, truths, I guess, of your “gauges.” But first, what are these gauges? Where do they come from? And so, I want to share this example, because this was something that I learned as a young, I don’t know, I want to say high schooler or middle schooler, about trusting your gauges, trusting God’s word, more than you trust your own emotions and those sorts of things. But this very visceral example came to mind as I was actually out of town and I was traveling for work. Can’t remember what it was, but I remember I was getting home late. I was like 10:00. I was supposed to land, and it was super dark, but it was also really foggy. And so, the visibility was completely nil. And so, as we’re flying, I’m definitely one of these guys that I like to look out the windows. I’m a window watcher on flights, whether we’re landing or taking off, or whether we’re just cruising, really! I like looking out the window! I like kind of guessing where we’re at. If we’re over a major city, I like to say, “Okay, what city are we over right now?” [Selena chuckles] And so, I know that we’re getting ready to land, and so, I’m looking out the window and I’m realizing I can’t get my bearings at all! Usually when you’re landing over your hometown, you can kind of say like, “Oh, that’s that! This is that.”

[00:20:18]
Selena:
Yeah. “I know where this highway is.” Yeah.

Ryan:
And I always think we always fly over our house, but the [Selena snickers] airport’s 40 minutes away.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
So, I’m like, “Man, if I could just jump out in a parachute, I can be home in like—”

Selena:
Everybody thinks that. [Ryan laughs]

Ryan:
Okay, good! And so, but I looked out and I couldn’t see anything! And not only that, not being able to see anything completely disoriented me.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And I started to feel like the plane was banking, but it felt like it was banking, but I couldn’t tell.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And so, I started feeling like I was getting dizzy! And it was just completely disorienting. And… I thought to myself, “I wonder how are the pilots going to be able to see the landing strip? How are they going to know how close they are to the airport? If I can’t see, surely they can’t see!”

Selena:
[Chuckling] Right.

Ryan:
And obviously, that’s a really irrational fear and all that. But I had to kind of comfort myself and say, “Okay. Well, they can see because they have gauges.”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
They have things that orient them in space and time regardless of what their senses are telling them.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Okay. So often we do what maybe foolish Ryan would have done, right? [Selena scoffs] If in that moment of fear, I said, “This is insane! We’re going to crash!” If I made a break for the nearest exit—

Selena:
[Chuckling] Oh gosh…

Ryan:
And forced my way through that exit and jumped off the plane, that would have been complete and utter foolishness.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Even with a parachute.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
I mean, it would have been foolishness.

Selena:
You’re way too high.

Ryan:
Well, you’re not way too— [Sighs an exhale] I don’t know about that, ‘cause you’re still at 10,000 feet.

Selena:
Eh.

Ryan:
[Scoffs] Yeah. I don’t know. Well, you’re at 10,000 feet when you’re descending. [Selena laughs] But regardless, no one’s going to debate it would’ve been a stupid thing to do.

Selena:
[Chuckling] Yes!

Ryan:
And so, but so often we do that—

Selena:
We do that though.

Ryan:
In our marriage, when we start feeling—

Selena:
We respond— Yeah!

Ryan:
“I’m disoriented. This is not anything familiar.”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
“This is what I thought our marriage would be; it’s not that! And I can’t see the ground. We’re going to crash or we’re going to just fly off into oblivion!”

Selena:
When we trust what’s in front of us in our own senses and abilities versus our gauges, which is, for one, God’s word. Right?

Ryan:
Right, right! So, the pilots, and I want to finish the analogy real fast, the pilots don’t worry because they have gauges, like we said. The gauges themselves are trustworthy.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And here’s the thing: they actually do trust the gauges.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
The pilots aren’t sitting up there thinking, “Well, it says North, but I kind of feel like north’s a few degrees this way.”

Selena:
[Chuckles] Right.

Ryan:
“So, I’m a go ahead. The gauge is good, but I got this.”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
“I’m going to go ahead and turn a little bit to the left.”

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
And the other co-pilots thinking, “You’re an idiot! What are you doing?! The gauge is telling you where North is!”

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
“Well, I got it. I can see. All right? I look at the stars. I can see.” [Selena chuckles] “It feels better this way.”

Selena:
Moana over here, huh? [Both laugh]

Ryan:
[Chuckling] Just a little Moana action. But, “It feels better, so I’m going to go ahead and just—”

Selena:
Feels right if we go—

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
Yeah, yeah! And that’s feelings and emotions can get us into some big trouble—

Ryan:
Right!

Selena:
When we allow them to be God, we allow them to be the pilot and navigate us. It can be—

Ryan:
Mm-hm!

Selena:
Very, very foolish, for sure.

Ryan:
So, no matter what they see through the window, through the clouds, the fog, the darkness or whatever, they have access to the—

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
And this is critical— They have access to information that matters most.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And they use it to guide them.

Selena:
So good!

Ryan:
In other words, they trust it.

Selena:
So good.

Ryan:
Okay. So, we have three big truths that we want you to take away from this podcast—

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
As you go into life and into your marriage, about gauges. The first big truth, given all that, given the passages that we read, we’re going to read some more passages as we go through these, but number one is you have gauges.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
You have gauges. There are, and what I mean by that, there are absolute— What am I trying to say? Like devices? They are actual ideas that are biblical that will guide you in your marriage. Okay, so, the first one is covenant!

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
Okay, so what specific gauges do we have? We have covenant, and that comes from… God’s word.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Okay. Selena, as we were talking through this, you said, “Well, the gauge we really have is the Bible and the Holy Spirit.” And my response to you was, “Well, the Bible is… inspired by the Holy Spirit,” [Both laugh] “And it’s been given to us as God’s complete revelation for—”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
“Everything we need for life and godliness.”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
“So, yes! You’re right. We have the Bible and the Holy Spirit. However, the Bible has given us these ideas that are very tangible kind of things—”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
“On our dashboard that tell us where to go.” So, the first—

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
One is covenant.

Selena:
I would agree.

Ryan:
Okay. [Selena snickers] So, covenant… We talk about covenant a lot because covenant is one of God’s—

Selena:
Kind of a big deal.

Selena:
It’s kind of a big deal. It’s one of His attributes. He’s covenantal.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
He operates His relationships with us…

Selena:
It’s one of the ways that we—

Ryan:
Are covenantal.

Selena:
Reflect God, I think, in marriage.

Ryan:
Mm-hm!

Selena:
Is through our covenant, and we reflect His character.

Ryan:
Yeah, yeah! So, we look at, okay, the covenants that God made with His people. It’s a reflection of who He is.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And so, when we make a covenant with each other and we’re called to reflect God’s image—

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
Then we can be covenantal with each other.

[00:25:00]
Selena:
It’s so powerful ‘cause so many times Israel walked away. So many times, God’s people walked away. They wanted other gods. They forgot, which we do! I do! I forget. I mean, look at last night. You forget, right? That God has—

Ryan:
Well, that’s why you went to the word, though, too, which is really cool.

Selena:
Thank you. I try! [Laughing] There’s honestly nowhere else I would want to go, because everything else is empty! It’s a dead end. God’s word, it’s life! Right? And so, you can’t underestimate covenant, and it’s important that we understand what it means. And I mean, go look back at our previous episodes. We talk about covenant pretty much every episode, I think! [Snickers] But
II Timothy 2:13 says, “If we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself.”

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
We have a bunch of other ones in there, too.

Ryan:
Yeah. So, God’s worth is rich with covenantal examples.

Selena:
Yes, yes.

Ryan:
I mean, you can look at Luke 16:18, which is everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery. That’s an example of how Jesus, He’s basically looking back and saying this is why this covenant matters.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
We have Malachi 2, I’m not going to go through all of these, Malachi 2:14, Exodus 34:6, Deuteronomy 7:9, I Thessalonians 5. There’s a ton there! Okay.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
But the application here. Okay. So, if you’re asking yourself is your marriage covenant worth keeping?

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Does God really want you to honor your marital covenant through hard times? Yes, and yes. [Selena snickers] Okay. Is God faithful? Yes, He is!

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
So, in a covenant, we’re called to be faithful to it. So, how is this a gauge? Okay. So, you’re asking yourself, “Are we going to make it? Can we make it?”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
“Is this worth fighting for? Is this the right person I should be married to?”

Selena:
Right. “I don’t feel like it is. It doesn’t feel…”

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
“It feels like we should just try something else for a while, or we should just maybe not—”

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
“I don’t think God’s word really knows what it’s talking about—”

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
“Especially when it comes to my situation.” Right? And we’re very quick—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
To disqualify.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
[Inhales] I think His word and authority, at least I am.

Ryan:
Mm-hm!

Selena:
Our pride wells up because we just— we want a quick fix. And God, I think, in His goodness and beauty is just like, “I don’t want a Band-Aid. I want to do surgery on you.” You know?

Ryan:
Mm!

Selena:
“I want to make you new.”

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
“And I want to renew this area for you and your spouse, and this is the only way to do it. And you have to trust Me. You have to trust Me.”

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
“That’s the only way forward.” Which stinks ‘cause we don’t want to, and we don’t feel like everything within us kind of like—

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
Rails against that. Right?

Ryan:
[Inhales] I think there’s a big presupposition here, too, that might be worth mentioning at this point, is that… having the idea of having gauges implies that there is a right destination.

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
Okay?

Selena:
Yep, yep.

Ryan:
So, if you don’t care where you’re going [Both snickers], then why does it matter where you’re headed?

Selena:
You don’t need gauges! [Laughs]

Ryan:
It doesn’t matter the direction you face.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
It doesn’t matter where you’re headed. None of that matters! It doesn’t even matter if you stay aloft in the air.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
But if there is a right destination that will be the end that God has in mind, the end that you have in mind as someone who’s following God…

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
What is that right destination? And therefore, why are these gauges important? Well, the right destination is crossing the finish line of our death when you say that—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And looking our Savior in the face and hearing, “Well done, good and faithful servant.”

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Now, by God’s grace, because of His grace…

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
We’ll hear that because we’re in Christ, and He sees His own imputed righteousness on us. And so, there’s the sense that— but there is there is actions that we are accountable for here.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Right?

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Not to salvation, but through our sanctification and all that good stuff.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
So, that is kind of the presupposed truth that there is an end that is ideal.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Covenant is a gauge to get us there, meaning that if anything that we want to do goes against this first gauge of covenant, then we can trust the gauge instead of trusting what we want to do.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
That’s what this all means. The second big gauge that we have as a married couple is love!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
So, the thing ab— [Exhales]

Selena:
We’re going to shout it forever and ever! Covenant and love!

Ryan:
Its covenant and love!

Selena:
Understanding and defining those terms with a biblical application and definition is the only way—

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
It’s opening the whole door to understanding marriage [Both chuckle], I feel like in the right sense and having this confidence from the Lord of saying, “Okay. No matter what! We can face this. We can walk through this.”

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
Maybe not can; we have to! And by God’s grace, He’s not going to leave us.

Ryan:
So, you said something, though, that was really important, is you said that a biblical definition of love.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
So…

Selena:
1 Corinthians—

Ryan:
When we say love, we don’t mean like, “Hey, whatever you feel!”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
We don’t mean the way the world defines love.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Which, by the way, the world can’t.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
[Snickers] We did a whole study on it, but there’s not an objective definition of love.

Selena:
The ideas of love are pretty much based on emotional feelings, I think.

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
And experiential, rather than actionable from a different place, like a different source.

Ryan:
[Chuckles] So… This is what comes to mind, when you ask somebody who refuses to admit the authority of the Bible, right? And you say, “Define love,” and they say, “Well, love is being able to apologize to someone first,” or, “Love is when you feel like they listen to you, and you just connect!”

[00:30:06]
Selena:
[Yawning] I’m yawning, and I don’t even mean to! It just [Laughs]…

Ryan:
She’s yawning.

Selena:
[Laughing] I sorry.

Ryan:
So, you know what it reminds me of?

Selena:
That was timely, though.

Ryan:
It reminds me of LaCroix. [Both laughs] Because—

Selena:
You drink LaCroix.

Ryan:
You read the flavors of LaCroix—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And it’s like “essence of essence of lime.” [Ryan laughs and Selena chuckles] Or, “Mandarin pear,” or some random flavor. And then you crack open the Lacroix and you smell it, and it smells amazing. And then you taste it, and it tastes like just seltzer water. [Ryan snickers] What is the whole deal with Lacroix anyway, by the way? I can’t…

Selena:
Just stop. We’re going to lose listeners here.

Ryan:
Do you like it? [Laughs] I’m sorry!

Selena:
I do like it. Get out of here!

Ryan:
But I feel like, okay, next time you drink a Lacroix, think of this. Lacroix is the version of love the world is trying to sell you when there’s [Laughing] something so much better!

Selena:
That’s a bad analogy.

Ryan:
That is not just an essence of something, it is the thing itself. That’s a good analogy! [Laughs]

Selena:
It’s a mix! I don’t know.

Ryan:
‘Cause I’m thinking of fresh-squeezed orange juice, right?

Selena:
“Tomato,” “tomahto,” huh?

Ryan:
I don’t want something that it’s like a soda can that we placed next to an orange for two hours, and that’s LaCroix.

Selena:
[Laughs] Some people like that!

Ryan:
I want to actual orange, all right?

Selena:
Some people like that.

Ryan:
Anyway! [Selena chortles] So, love, what we’re getting at is there’s a definitive [Selena cackles], rich, potent definition of love.

Selena:
Yes, yes!

Ryan:
And what is it? Well, go to Ephesians 4:12. Start there. It says, “Be completely humble and gentle. Be patient, bearing with one another in love.”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Okay. So, gentle. If you ask somebody in the world and say, “Define love,” are they going to say it’s going to be patience and humility and gentleness?

Selena:
Nah. It comes from a self-serving place of feeling, and…

Ryan:
They might say that! I mean [Selena chuckles], they might say what I said.

Selena:
I’m assuming a lot! [Laughs]

Ryan:
They’re saying— Well—

Selena:
Sorry, friends!

Ryan:
But the point is is they’re going to be—

Selena:
There’s a wrong understanding in that—

Ryan:
They’re going to glean the flavor of it by sitting next to the thing for long enough? [Both laugh] But that’s not the real thing! The only reason we can give, or experience love, is because of the gospel and Jesus Christ himself.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
That’s why we have I Corinthians 13. If you’re looking for a biblical exercise to go through with your spouse, read I Corinthians 13 and look at how Jesus fulfilled every aspect of love.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Love is patient. How is Jesus patient with you? Love is kind. How has Jesus been kind to you? Love is gentle.

Selena:
These things, too, come from I John 4:19. We can only love this way because He first loved us. Right?

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
And the depth of that understanding. I mean, those are my prayers. “God help me to understand Your love so that I can love as You loved.” Because I don’t think we always love the way He loves, right?

Ryan:
No!

Selena:
We try to understand it. I just want to be careful we’re not describing things that should be—or prescript— What is it, prescriptive versus descriptive?

Ryan:
Yeah. Yeah. We have to make sure that we’re letting love well up from within us.

Selena:
There’s fruit of the Spirit that—Yeah.

Ryan:
Because of our understanding. And that’s, I think, what you’re trying to say, right?

Selena:
And love is a fruit of the Spirit operating in your life.

Ryan:
[Exhales] Yeah. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, all good stuff. It starts with love!

Selena:
It starts with love.

Ryan:
So, if we’re walking by the flesh, meaning that we’re not walking by the Spirit—

Selena:
We’re— Yeah. We’re walking by our feelings.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Something other than the true gauge.

Ryan:
Which, by the way, feelings are part of your flesh, right?

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
They come from your mind. [Laughs] They come from, yeah, you’re psychological—

Selena:
And they can seem so real, and so—

Ryan:
Well, they are real! I’m just saying that they’re not—

Selena:
I mean, yes! But they seem so… for me, if I don’t express those feelings, I feel compromising. I feel like I’m not being honest.

Ryan:
[Exhales] We’ve had this talk. Yeah.

Selena:
Yes. I feel like I’m not living up to what is happening inside of me, and it’s like, “Well, no. You don’t have to respond to those. And you don’t have to respond in that way.” Why? Because Christ died for me, and those are things that I don’t have to respond out of anymore to justify myself before people.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
I’ve been justified in Christ. Right?

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
I’m still learning that, people.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Still learning that.

Ryan:
Well, yeah. You’re right. And we all are. Don’t feel like you’re alone in that. But okay, so, we’ve talked about two ways. The big overarching point here is that you have gauges. There’s three gauges that we can talk about today. There’s covenant.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Okay. You know what it is, now follow it. There’s love. You know what it is. Follow it.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And then there’s provision and protection. Now, what do we mean by that? We talked about financial stress. Selena, you worried about protection, right? You’ve been reading a lot on the internet—

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
And made you kind of…

Selena:
Never a good idea to read too much on the internet [Inaudible]. [Ryan chuckles]

Ryan:
Well, especially around topics that you already feel afraid.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
‘Cause whatever you’re afraid of, go to the internet to be made more afraid that thing.

Selena:
[Chuckling] Exactly.

Ryan:
And so, you really had to press into God’s provision, God’s protection, over our girls. We have three daughters.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
And… I’ll tell ya, there’s nothing I wouldn’t do to protect them. And I feel like God feels that probably to the nth degree. Plus, He also sees what’s absolutely good for us, not just what we think is good.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
But anyway, we have to remind ourselves of our gauge of God’s protection. Philippians 4:6-7, and this is what you read earlier!

Selena:
Right, right! “And do not—”

Ryan:
“Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything—”

Selena:
Yeah.

[00:34:52]
Ryan:
“By prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your request to God. And the peace of God,” this is a cause and effect, okay? And then, “the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.” Okay. There’s also John 14:27, “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as this world gives give I unto you. Now let not your heart be troubled, and neither let them be afraid.”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Isaiah 40, that we read at the beginning of this, “Even youths shall faint and be weary, and young men shall fall exhausted; but they who wait for the LORD shall renew their strength; they’ll mount up with wings like eagles; they’ll run and not be weary; and they shall walk and not faint.”

Selena:
Well, and that’s just, I mean, it’s just so representative of the power and life that’s in God’s word, right? Hebrews talks about… it being splitting bone and marrow. Right? The word of the Lord is alive!

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
And it is sharpening—

Ryan:
Adaptive. Yeah.

Selena:
Yes. And so, when we go to it, we’re not just reading text that happened in the past or that is some good advice, right? It’s alive, it’s living, it’s active. So, when I came to it at 3:00 in the morning, and with my real fears in my head, and my emotions, all the things I was feeling, and I went to the word… God met me there. And He reminded me—

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
So richly of versus that I’ve read a thousand times, at least, in my lifetime, how I don’t have to worry because life is so much more important than the things that I’m worrying about. And what does that mean? What is life? Life that God gives us, the days that He gives us, the moments He gives us?

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
Everything that is life is from Him! It’s His grace. It’s His goodness. And that gives me comfort. That gives me assurance. Right? And entrusting His word, trusting that, okay, I feel these things, but You are King! You are sovereign!

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
You are in control. I don’t have to worry. I may feel these worries, but that will pass and I’m going to meditate on God’s word. I’m going to abide in Christ.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
I’m going to remember who He is. And when I forget, I’m going to go to my spouse! I’m going to go to Ryan and say, “I am having a hard time with this. Please, help me.”

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
“Remind me who Jesus is.” If you as a couple are having a hard time, go to your community group. “We are having trouble. We are sick with worry and fear. Please help remind us of who Jesus is.”

Ryan:
Hm…

Selena:
“And in this circumstance, remind us of the gospel in our fears and our worries and our anxieties. Help us to see who He is and the goodness of Him! And not just in this life, but in the next, in eternity!”

Ryan:
His goodness into the next? Yeah, yeah. No, that’s good! You actually touched on two th— Basically, I think I would add a gauge, and that’s community!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
On this! So, we can go and trust that Christian community is going to be good for us. It’s going to be a gauge that gets us back on the trajectory, on the—

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Azimuth that we should be on as a— [Selena laughs] as people who are travelling, right, through this life?

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
So, and then you got, and you started to bridge in to the next one, which is your gauges are trustworthy. So, let’s just recap here. So, the big point first, the big first point we’re trying to make, excuse me, is that you have gauges. And those gauges are what is biblical covenant and how does that apply to your marriage? What is love? God’s provision and protection. He’s promised to protect and—

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Provide everything you need! And then the fourth one is biblical community. Okay? And the second big point we’re trying to make with this is you have gauges, but your gauges are also trustworthy.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
And that’s what you started saying. It’s like we actually can put our weight, and then we can actually trust them. We can close our eyes. Granted, you have to look at the gauge with your eyes. [Selena laughs] But, we can shut off our extra your senses. You can close the—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
The windshield, if you will!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And trust the gauges are going to get you there. And we have great evidence for that! How do we know our gauges are trustworthy? Well, we believe the Bible is inerrant and authoritative; there’s a lot that goes into that. And the Bible itself is self-affirming! It says, I Corinthians 3:16, “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training and righteousness.”

Selena:
So good!

Ryan:
We believe in a doctrine called sola scriptura, which is that it’s by God’s word alone, that it is His full revelation.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
We don’t rely on any other revelation in our own hearts or from outside of us. God’s word is enough. Now, we do get affirmation of that through others and through…

Selena:
The Holy Spirit.

Ryan:
The Holy Spirit in our hearts. But we don’t generate our own revelation.

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
We have it in God’s word!

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
Okay. So, if we believe in that, then we can take it at face value. However, to get to that point, it might be a challenge! So, how do we get to that point of trusting God’s word? Well, we do have a lot of evidence! Bottom line is it’s going to take faith to believe any worldview. Whether you’re an atheist or a Christian, you’re going to have to have faith in something.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
I think we have the most evidence for the Christian worldview that is historical.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
We have evidence that is, in terms of the manuscripts that were going off of, I mean, the number, the sheer number of manuscripts and the accuracy of those manuscripts!

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
It’s phenomenal!

[00:39:54]
Selena:
Well, and also, I just want to say from just a person and believer’s experience, that oftentimes I think God allows us to be faced with the same… problem, the same anxiety, the same worry or fear over and over again in order to build that trust! Because the more our trust is built, the less that fear claims…

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
Any sort of reality in our life. Right? And any sort of authority. Because the more I’m trusting in God, the less I am trusting in those fears to be coming true. God forbid, one of your worst fears coming true. Well, guess what? God is still there.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
He is still good.

Ryan:
That’s good!

Selena:
And finding— walking through that journey, He would provide. Right? His Holy Spirit, I believe, would get us through whatever we would have to face. And that is what I had to, I think, assure myself [Chuckles] in the middle of the night as well, that…

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
Me worrying is not going to change what’s going to happen! God is God. And I have to remember, He is King overall! And I think that sometimes I can keep Him in my head and my heart, and not realize that He is the creator of the universe. Right?

Ryan:
Well, and that’s the big assumption there, is that it’s not going to be… Trusting God doesn’t mean that it’s going to be pain free.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
It doesn’t mean that you’re not going to go through—

Selena:
It’s easy! Or—

Ryan:
Hard things.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Our hope is not here and now.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
That’s the banner of Christian worldviews.

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
It’s not here now! Our hope isn’t there and then. It’s not in this kingdom.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
It’s in the kingdom to come!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
It’s not in the kings of this age, the rulers, it’s not in the countries or the nations.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Of this age! It’s in a kingdom and a King who is yet to reign in a— He’s reigning now, but the kingdom has yet to come.

Selena:
Right, right!

Ryan:
And so, it’s not here and now. It’s there and then. And it’s already, but not yet.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And so, wherever we go, I mean, you could read… Go all the way back through church history—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And the martyrs and the apostles and the church fathers and the church mothers! You look at all these people who have— They suffered great persecution, great hardship—

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
To the glory of God! Wrap your head around that!

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Or were they just faking it? Were they just living in disingenuous? Were they somehow trying to— No! They had their trust in the living—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
The reigning King, Jesus Christ, on the throne—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Whom they had yet to see.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Who they had yet to meet in person, and they are with Him now.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
And so, your gauges are trustworthy. If you’re of the camp, and this is— I tend to be more on the skeptical side. I tend to be more on the… Now, don’t get me wrong. I don’t feel like my own senses are the absolute litmus test for reality here and now.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
I trust in a reality that’s greater than me! And I subject myself to that. I submit myself to God’s reality. But it’s taken some time to get there!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
But there’s a ton of really quality apologetic works on the internet. Just look up apologetics online. You’ll find some great stuff. A good starting one is Josh McDowell’s, I think, Evidence That Demands a Verdict. [Inhales] There’s a ton out there!

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Okay. So, the first one is you have gauges! The second big point is your gauges are trustworthy. And the third big point is that you must actually trust your gauges! [Both chuckle] So, we’ve talked about this a little bit, but when it comes to marriage, we have to remember ourselves! We have to remember this, that having great gauges, having the right gauges that actually functionally work. They do no good if we never look at them.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
We do no good if we don’t follow them. So, next time a storm hits and long before, we need to be looking—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
So, how do we actually look at our gauge and actually trust in our gauges as we actually read God’s word?

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
We let it bear weight in our hearts.

Selena:
Right. And honestly, the more I’ve saturated myself in scripture and let the Holy Spirit just remind me in the moments, in all the in-between moments, right, in all of when I can’t find time to read, I can find time to listen. And I love that on my Bible app, I can just… hear the word! There’s so many apps out there now that will read God’s word to you! And it’s just so refreshing because that is getting in my soul! I’m reminded of who God is so that when the storms do come, I can be like, “Yes! Christ is in my boat!”

Ryan:
Mm.

Selena:
“He is not worried! This is not rimpiling—” “Rumpling His feathers.” [Both snicker]

Ryan:
[Snickering] Just—

Selena:
There we go!

Ryan:
Looking all rumpled! [Snickers]

Selena:
Yep! [Both laugh] He is— I’ve been reading a lot of little kid stories lately. [Selena chuckles]

Ryan:
[Chuckling] Rumpelstiltskin.

Selena:
[Selena laughs] Rumple—No! [Ryan laughs] But He can sleep peacefully in the midst of the storm because He is the controller of the storm. Nothing is outside of His grasp.

Ryan:
Mmm!

Selena:
I can trust His kingship. I can trust His lordship. And so, that’s why we say get in the word daily. Let it saturate you. If it’s listening to it for ten or fifteen minutes, do it! Get it in your soul, get it in your spirit, because that is where we’re able to really walk out in confidence, whatever we’re facing! Whether that’s bringing us anxiety, or that’s bringing us fear within our relationship with our spouse!

Ryan:
Mm. [Inhales] Yeah. I’ve been… in an effort—

Selena:
Getting all preachy here! [Ryan snickers] I don’t know if it sounds good!

Ryan:
[Snickering] You are!

Selena:
I’m a little sleepy! [Ryan laughs]

Ryan:
[Laughing] It’s okay.

Selena:
From my 2:00 AM wake-ups.

Ryan:
I like to just put the mike in front your face and just let you go.

Selena:
[Laughing] Just let you go! Please, reel me in if I get crazy.

Ryan:
Where’s this roller coaster going today? [Laughs]

Selena:
[Laughing] Oh my goodness.

Ryan:
[Laughing] Where’s this roll—

Selena:
How dare you! [Ryan laughs]

[00:45:00]
Ryan:
I’m just kidding!

Selena:
It’s in the can! I’m leaving! [Both chuckle]

Ryan:
[Chuckling] All right, yeah. Whatever! [Selena laughs] No. In an effort to kind of write my heart in this way, I’ve been carrying my Bible. I have this little pocket Bible that I got on Amazon. It’s just a little ESV.

Selena:
It’s awesome.

Ryan:
Four by six little pocket Bible.

Selena:
[Whispers] Oh! You get that for the girls! [Resumes normal volume]

Ryan:
They [Exhales]—

Selena:
They always want to take their Bibles to church, and they’re kind of big.

Ryan:
We’re trying to think of a Valentine’s Day gift for them. I think that should be a birthday thing!

Selena:
Oh, okay.

Ryan:
That’s kind of a big deal.

Selena:
Okay! [Ryan inhales] Anyways! [Selena laughs]

Ryan:
I want it to be more than just a—

Selena:
Sidebar!

Ryan:
“Hey! Here’s a Valentine’s Day gift that I don’t really care about.”

Selena:
[Quietly] You don’t care about the Bible?

Ryan:
You told me not to care about their— No! The Valen— You told me not to care about their Valentine’s Day present.

Selena:
[Quietly] Oh! Yeah. [Resumes normal volume]

Ryan:
Just to give them something that you don’t worry about them losing or ruining [Both laugh], ‘cause they’re so little still!

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
Anyway! [Selena scoffs] Sidebar! In an effort to actually trust my gauges, I’m carrying this around with me.

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
In my pocket, in my jacket. Anytime I go out, and instead of having— ‘cause you have your phone all the time with you—

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
And yeah, you think, “I can have my phone and the app on my phone, and that’s fine and that’s great.” Frankly, you guys, I get so sick of looking at my phone.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
And if I look at it to read my Bible, it’s only a matter of minutes—

Selena:
Something pops up! Yeah.

Ryan:
Until I’m distracted.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And I’m off into internet land somewhere just droning away. So, I realize if I bring my Bible with me and I pull that bad boy out and I put it on the table, and I start reading that while I’m waiting for food or waiting at a doctor’s office or whatever, not only is it make for great conversation, ‘cause people come up and are like, “Hey! Hey, brother. How you doing?” [Laughs] And I’m like, “Hey!”

Selena:
[Chuckles] Or you get a stinky look.

Ryan:
“Don’t know who you are!” [Both laugh] “Brother!” [They continue laughing] Yeah, but it makes for a great conversation. But also, man, it’s just… I’m trying to respond to this passage in Proverbs, right?

Selena:
Rich, yeah.

Ryan:
It says, “My son, do not forget my teaching, but let your heart keep my commandments for length of days and years of life, and peace they will add to you. Let not steadfast love and faithfulness forsake you. Bind them—”

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
“Around your neck and write them on the tablets of your heart.”

Selena:
Keep it with you always!

Ryan:
So, that’s what I’ll do, is I’ll get our daughter’s bible necklaces! [Chuckles]

Selena:
[Chuckling] There you go!

Ryan:
Just a book around— [Both laughing] around their neck.

Selena:
Oh, my goodness!

Ryan:
So, anyway! We have to bind it around our neck! What’s that look like? We take it with us! It adorns us!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
It comes with us. And not only that, it’s not just an accessory. It’s something that actually bears weight on our lives!

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
We actually trust that it is true.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
We go to it because we are thirsty, in need of eternal water, and it’s the source of eternal water. It’s the source of life—

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
Itself! It’s not just… nice thoughts put in there by smart people!

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
It is the living and changing, heart transforming word of God Himself. It is His revelation.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
It is complete! It is sufficient for our salvation, and it is everything we need for life and godliness. We need to actually live like those are true statements!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
So, actually trusting our gauges means that we apply God’s word to our life. So, if you’re hurting and feeling insecure in your marriage, saturate yourself in scripture and let the Holy Spirit remind you of how deeply loved and secure you are in Christ. Christ should be your anchor to reality, especially the reality of your worth and identity.

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
It’s from there that we’re able to actually see our marriage rightly.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
To see who our spouse is—

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
In light of the gospel.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
To see how we’re called to love them in light of the gospel. It starts with God’s word. And if you’re still struggling with that, I would just ask yourself, who does Christ say you are?

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
I think the summer I got saved, God just made me so hungry for His word. I just started going through—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And I wrote down every statement that says, “You are in Christ,” “You are in Christ.” Start with Paul’s epistles, by the way. Read through his letters, because it’s just insane what he says, who you are in Christ, your birthright as an adopted son or daughter—

Selena:
Mm…

Ryan:
In Christ. It’s amazing! So, dig in your Bible. Find out and do the digging!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Do the digging! And so, how else will you know what you’re going to say unless you actually go in and look at them? So, anyway! Yeah! Life is full of storms. We can easily feel disoriented. Our judgment can be clouded. Our senses can trick us.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
The whole point we’re trying to make here is you have gauges, and they’re trustworthy.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
And you need to trust your gauges. And in doing so, you will be submitting yourself to God’s law, God’s way, His greater way of things!

Selena:
Mmm.

Ryan:
Obeying Him will always be better for His children—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Than disobeying Him.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
You can’t obey Him if you don’t know Him. Right?

Selena:
So good, so good.

Ryan:
So, anyway. Hope this is encouraging.

Selena:
It’s been encouraging for us, I can say.

Ryan:
Yeah! I know there’s a lot of things, right? If you’re married and listen to this, you’re thinking, “Well, great! Well, that doesn’t help me at all.” There’s a lot of situations that are so nuanced and they’re so hard that we just really want to encourage you to don’t walk through them alone.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
If you need help, go get help!

Selena:
Yeah. Keep people around you.

Ryan:
Invest your time and energy and money into getting help. Sometimes you don’t even need the money part. You just need a good pastor who is Bible-based—

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
And will direct you according to God’s word, not according to his opinion!

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
Or according to culture, but according to God’s word. You need good friends that’ll do the same thing! And sometimes you need help from a psychologist—

[00:50:01]
Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Or a therapist or a counselor who’s Bible-based. So!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
We just don’t want to gloss over all the nuances of every marriage on the internet. [Both chuckle]

Selena:
[Chuckling] Right.

Ryan:
[Chuckling] Who’s listening to this. Anyway! We love you guys!

Selena:
Awesome.

Ryan:
Thank you so much for listening. And I think I’ll pray this time!

Selena:
Okay!

Ryan:
Is that all right? Louisa’s asleep on you, so…

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
Unless you want to pray?

Selena:
No, you go. I always want to pray, but you may pray this time.

Ryan:
Ah! You’re so holy.

Selena:
[Both laughing] You may pray this time. [Selena continues laughing]

Ryan:
[Quietly] Thank you. [Resumes normal volume] God, You’re so good! And Your word is… It’s just so perfect! God, I thank You for the gift that it is. You didn’t have to reveal Yourself in that way. You didn’t have to make Yourself accessible to us. But God, we are the beneficiaries of Your word, with beneficiaries of men and women who went before us to make it accessible in our language! And God, I just don’t want to take that for granted. I pray that You would enliven our hearts to trust You!

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
Enliven our hearts to trust You even more. Faith really does— It’s a gift from You. So, give us the gift of faith. Help us to believe Your words! Help us to believe to the point that it actually bears weight in our lives, and we actually apply your word, Jesus.

Selena:
Mm.

Ryan:
I thank you for the married couples listening to this! I pray that they would be enlivened—

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
To believe You even more! I pray for the husband or the wife who feels maybe distressed or full of stress or full of anxiety. I pray that You’d give them otherworldly peace!

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Jesus, like You told us in John 14, give us the peace that we can find nowhere else. Peace that’s only found in You.

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
And I pray that You’d be glorified no matter our circumstance, that You’d be glorified in us, but also in the lives of the listeners, Lord. In Jesus name, Amen.

Selena:
Amen.

Ryan:
All right, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us for this episode of the Fierce Marriage Podcast. This episode is!

Selena:
In the can!

Ryan:
As usual, we’ll see you in a few days, up to a week. [Ryan laughs] Up to seven days, depending. [Selena laughs] Life’s been hard! Like we say, it’s not been hard. It’s just been a little bit— It’s been… complex.

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
I’ll say that!

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
And so, we’ll try to do Q&A episode this week. But again, thank you so much for listening. If you would like to be a part of what’s happening through Fierce Marriage, we would love to lock arms with you. Go to fiercemarriage.com/patreon, and that will redirect you to our Patreon page. P-A-T-R-E-O-N. And there you can join us monthly, just based on how ever God is calling you. We just ask that you pray about that, and if God does call you, that you would lock arms with us! We’d be honored.

Selena:
Mm!

Ryan:
So, that’s fiercemarriage.com/patreon. But other than that, we’ll see you in a couple of days, and until next time!

Selena:
Stay fierce!

[00:52:37]

<Ending Sequence>

[00:52:55]

Podcast ends.

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