• Referenced scripture:
  • John 1
  • 1 Corinthians 6:15-20
  • Proverbs 28:7
  • Proverbs 13:4
  • Proverbs 12:24
  • 1 Timothy 5:8
  • Proverbs 10:4
  • Genesis 2:15
  • Ecclesiastes 9:10
  • Colossians 3:17
  • Luke 16:10
  • 1 Corinthians 13
  • 1 John 1
  • Galatians 5

• Recommended resource:
  • thenewsisgood.com

Ryan: All right, Selena, I feel like we are perhaps hitting a hornet’s nest today. Because it’s one of these things that I don’t think it’s very popular to talk about, at least not honestly, I’ll say it that way. And we’ve also switched sides, which feels really weird-

Selena: I’m just lost over here, but we wanted to try so here we are.

Ryan: Welcome to the left side.

Selena: Welcome to the right side. The right side, it’s the right side, the correct side.

Ryan: We were going to talk about this question is if my husband or my spouse gained weight, am I shallow for caring? Am I shallow for caring? It’s going to be a good conversation. You might be challenged. We’ll see you on the other side.

[00:00:40] < music >

Ryan: Greetings, and welcome back to the Fierce Marriage Podcast. I’m Ryan, this is Selena, we’re The Frederick’s. We do Fierce Marriage on Tuesdays Fierce Parenting On Thursdays. We have an announcement. If you’ve been watching for a while you already know this, and we also put the thing on the podcast.

We have new books that are pre ordering right now, at the time of recording this. It is How a Husband Speaks and How a Wife Speaks. And those books are basically founded on the premise that communication is the grace of God. It is possible to learn the skill. That you’re not just destined to be a quiet person or a non-communicative person.

We can learn this skill and even master it. And, we contend, it is probably the quickest, easiest, most clear, way that you can grow in your marriage. So check that out, go to fiercemarriage.com/speak, and that will redirect you to the landing page where you can learn more about those books.

Other than that, we do have our patrons. We want to say a special thank you to Barbara Arr. Hello, Barbara, thank you for being a patron. That means a ton to us.
It’s a large part of how we make this podcast happen. If you feel called to partner with us, we’d be honored. We, certainly, know you’re needed. We’re trying to get to 500 patrons by the end of the year, Lord willing, that’s a lot. That’s not quite double, but it’s a lot more than we have.

We have almost 300. So you can be part of that. It doesn’t have to be a lot either. Go to fiercemarriage.com/partner I’m still getting used to being on this side.

Selena: [chuckles] It feels weird?

Ryan: Yes, it’s very weird.

Selena: We used to record on this way, I feel like. Your computer used to be over here, but we didn’t record video. So it definitely feels new. But, anyways, we are answering a question from a listener. You guys have submitted some great questions.

Ryan: If you want to submit a question, go to fiercemarriage.com/ask. There’s a form there. You can actually text in. You can also call in with a voicemail. This one, I believe, came through text, I can’t recall.

Selena: Okay.

Ryan: It’s from anon. So, again, it’s from this very needy friend [laughs]. You’re going to read that?

Selena: Sure. “My husband has gained a lot of weight since we first met, and as we’ve gotten older, he’s lost a lot of his hair, and the weight has even changed his facial structure. I can manage my attraction to him when he keeps a full beard, that hides the weight gain. But when he fully shaves, I feel very unattracted to him.

I’ve had conversations about this with him, but every time he shaves it, it makes intimacy very difficult because he looks like a different person when he shaves. Am I just being shallow?”

Ryan: Mm, this is a good question, and I could see someone asking this question and having a hard time getting a straight answer.

Selena: Yes.

Ryan: So we’re going to try to shoot you straight here, today. And the big question is this is it shallow to care what your spouse looks like?
That’s at the base of this. Should I care what Selena looks like? Should Selena care what I look like? Should you care how I present myself?

Selena: Well, it’s a hard dynamic because it’s possible that you saw that person before you actually talked to that person. I thought you were so cute, so hot, in high school. I was like, “He’s caught my attention.” You’ve caught my eye.

Ryan: But that was after you heard me say stuff, I mean, come on.

Selena: Yes.

Ryan: Because you told me you didn’t even… I was a fly on the wall.

Selena: No, you walked in, sophomore year, and I was like, “Who is that?”

“Oh, that’s Ryan Frederick.” And then I heard you talk because a lot of times, it doesn’t matter, I used to think there was a couple of cute guys that I thought were cute. But then when they opened their mouth and started talking, I was like, “Nope.”

Ryan: Okay.

Selena: So I’m just saying all that because, I think, looks, there’s a lot of weight in that area, especially, with social media and all the struggles.

Ryan: So we’re not just talking about physical appearance here. There’s other things that, topically, we’re going to cover scripturally. We’re going to cover a lot of ground today scripturally, because we really want to see not just what Ryan and Selena have to say, what we think.

Selena: No.

Ryan: But what does God think about this, about our physical bodies? What does He think about how we care for our physical bodies? What does He care about how we view one another in marriage? What does love have to say about that, in terms of God’s character of love?

But here’s one pitfall we need to avoid, is how we answer this question. Because you could say, on one side of it, you could say, “No, you should just care about what’s in the heart.” Right, Sunny? Yes, you should just care about what’s in the heart.

Beauty is only skin deep, and as soon as you get past the beauty that’s really the person. Or you could go to the other extreme and say like, “Absolutely, you need to be as your best self for your spouse. You need to try your hardest, strive to be attractive to them, and you can put any label on it you want.”

That’s how you show them that you care. That’s how you show them that you are mindful of them. I think both sides of that are ruts that we can fall into.

There’s the gnostic view that seems to keep cropping up. There’s a quote that [Selena chuckling] you’re so immature, you need to grow up, pretty. There’s a quote, maybe, it was attributed to C.S. Lewis, I don’t know if he actually said this, but it was, “You are not a body and have a soul.”

He said, “You are a soul and you have a body.” And we hear that, we’re like, “Oh, man, that’s good.” And the reason why that strikes us as good is because it’s pushing back against modernism and the enlightenment modernism. Which is the weight that we put on the physical rationality.

Selena: Appearance.

Ryan: The weight we put on the tangible, and that was the rejection of the spiritual. And, so, when you hear a quote like that you’re like, “Oh, you’re right, there’s more to us than just our bodies.”

Selena: Yes.

Ryan: The problem is that’s a false dichotomy. We are not one or the other. We are both, and that’s scriptural. That’s why in John 1, when Christ became flesh, the way that John wrote that gospel, in the Greek, and it’s like he’s baiting the Gnostics along.

He’s saying, “And the light dwelt among us.” And John the Baptist, that one, he said, “I am not the light, but I’ve come to show you the light.” And as a gnostic, you could read that and be like, “Oh, yes, men. The light within us, the divine spark is there.”

And then, all of a sudden, John says, “And the light became flesh and He dwelt among us.” And the gnostic just comes to a screeching halt. And what Gnosticism is, it basically says that anything that’s physical and that’s not somehow rooted in the spiritual, I’m going to butcher this, but it’s evil. It’s inherently bad.
Whereas true enlightenment comes from the divine spark, the things unseen, the light within, and rejecting. So they were ascetics, meaning that anything pleasurable was bad.

And, so, that’s obviously the far end of it. The point is that in this conversation, we can’t reject the flesh, we can’t reject the spirit. We need to embrace both because God created us as flesh and spirit, and you know what? The new heaven is the new earth; it’s going to be very physical. It’s going to be very real.

It’s not going to be just floating around on clouds. There’s a new Jerusalem, new heaven, new earth. It’s going to be awesome. So we’re going to use a lot of Scripture, today. Let’s start with 1 Corinthians 6:15-20. You want to read that, Sel?

Selena: You know how I love reading the Bible. “Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? Never. Or do you not know that he who is joined to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For as it is written, ‘The two will become one flesh.’ But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a price so glorify God in your body.”

Oh, man, where was that verse this morning when I was talking to the Junior Highers, Middle School kiddos?

Ryan: The part I want to draw from that is this idea that our body is not our own, but it is good it’s a temple. It’s a temple worthy of housing the Holy Spirit.

Selena: God saw it fit for it to be, wow.

Ryan: Yes, and Paul is drawing a line from that reality to your sexuality. In other words, you could make an argument, our attractiveness, in a way. Now, I’m not trying to say that because Paul said that your body is a temple that means you need to now be a supermodel. You need to lose 100 pounds.
I’m not trying to say that. I’m just trying to make a point that our bodies are important, and they are a temple. And a temple is to be cared for, it’s to be kept up, and a lot of times we just limit that to the sexual nature of this passage. But, as we’ll see here, there’s more to the body in Scripture than just that.

So what does the Bible have to say about this topic? There’s four kind of veins of reasoning that I went down, as I was studying for this. We want to know what the Bible has to say about health. We want to know what the Bible has to say about laziness. We need to know what the Bible says about love, the nature of loving another. And we need to know what the Bible says about sexual attraction.

If we can get a good picture around those four things, I feel like we can answer this question. Of are you being shallow if you care what your spouse looks like? So let’s start with the health one.

I want to read from 1 Timothy 4 starting verse seven it says this, “Have nothing to do with irreverent silly myths, but rather train yourself for Godliness. For while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way. As it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.

The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. For to this end, we toil and strive because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the savior of all people, especially of those who believe.”

And, so, just the thing I want to point out there is that, yes, godliness is of ultimate value, “In every way” Paul says to Timothy. But he doesn’t discard the body. He says, “While bodily training is of some value.” Paul boasted about his getting beat up and still he got up and walked away. You don’t do that if you’re a frail person, there’s some strength there.

Selena: Well, and I think also God made us from dust to dust. So it’s understanding that, yes, we are a temple, but our bodies are also used for God’s purpose and they are not permanent here and now. They will be transformed there and then, when Christ returns. But, for now, we are to steward our bodies as best as we can for the season that God’s given us.

Ryan: Yes, exactly, and, again, we’re talking about health. What Scripture has to say about health, and along those lines in Proverbs, it says this “Hear, my son, and be wise.”
So whatever he says next he’s attaching to wisdom. “Direct your heart in the way, be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat. For the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty and slumber will clothe them with rags.” Therefore, wise, don’t be a drunkard, don’t be among the gluttons.

Proverbs 28:7 says, “A companion of gluttons shames his father.” There are other passages as well. But the conclusions here, we’re going to move on, is that gluttony is a sin, just like drunkenness is a sin.

So, in other words, if I’m gaining all kinds of weight because I’m sinning through gluttony. I have no governor on the things I’m eating, how much of it I’m eating, when I’m eating. There’s no discipline. There’s no self-discipline. I’m completely flesh driven, that’s a sin.

Selena: Right, because one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control. And, so, if self-control is not being exercised, if the Holy Spirit isn’t leading us in even what we consume, physically. The Holy Spirit should be guiding, and leading us, and instructing us in what we consume with our eyes, our ears. But what about also our bodies, then, yes, we are rejecting the Holy Spirit, essentially.

Ryan: There’s something else worth saying here, too, because it’s fairly recent, in the last 50 to 100 years, is it’s a lot easier, I would say, to gain weight now than it would have been any other time in history.

Selena: Yes.

Ryan: In the West, primarily, the abundance of food.

Selena: Ah, and the way food is produced.

Ryan: The way food is produced. It’s so easy to get access to high calorie foods now, and then the sedentary lifestyle, on top of that. So this fight is different for us, and I just want to acknowledge it is different than it would have been 100 years ago.

Selena: Right.

Ryan: And, so, there’s a different level of awareness and self-discipline needed. But here’s a challenge, okay, gluttony should be treated the same way we treat drunkenness.

Selena: There’s a reason why consuming at that rate, and that level, it’s not just because, maybe, food tastes good. There’s always a deeper reason of you-

Ryan: You think, yes.

Selena: Yes, there has to be. I mean, yes, food tastes good, but usually it’s linked to depression, or anxiety, or trauma, or a desire to be something you can’t be. And, so, again, you’re just reverting to food as a comfort rather than just a fuel for your body.

Ryan: Yes. So we covered the first category, which is health, and namely in terms of gluttony. Now, we’re not just talking about you’re getting older, your metabolism is slowing down, you no longer have 8% body fat. That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about much more extreme cases than that.

Now, in terms of laziness. So health and laziness, this is all helping us build a framework within which we can answer this question, this woman asked. Is that, generally speaking, the Bible teaches us that laziness is, at a minimum, foolishness, and at most, sin. And I would say that foolishness is sin. So it’s potato/potato there.

So Proverbs 13:4 “A sluggard’s appetite is never filled, but the desires of the diligent are fully satisfied.” Is contrasting between a lazy person and a diligent person.

Proverbs 12:24, “Diligent hands will rule, but laziness ends in forced labor.”

1 Timothy 5:8, “Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household.” And we talked about this last week, I think, or two weeks ago. “Has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”

Proverbs 10:4, “Lazy hands make for poverty, but diligent hands bring wealth.”

I’m going to skip ahead, there’s a lot of Proverbs on this. This one was profound to me, is Genesis 2:15 says this, “And the Lord God took the man,” pre-fall.” “And put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.” We were made for work. Laziness is a rejection of that design.

Selena: Wow.

Ryan: Ecclesiastes 9:10, “Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might.

Colossians 3:17, “Whatever you do,” in the same vein. “Whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.”

Finally, Luke 16:10, “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.” And I wonder if, maybe, we could infer that whoever is lazy with little will be lazy with much, so, laziness. We’ve talked about health.

Let’s talk about love. We’ve talked about that ad nauseam, on the podcast. So, essentially, this what does Scripture say about love? Well, it’s selfless.

Selena: Yes, love is covenantal. Love is patient. Love is kind. God is love. Love is not God. Love, joy, peace, again, fruit of the Holy Spirit, so there you go. Love is selfless.

Ryan: Yes, check out 1 Corinthians 13. Check out 1 John 1.

Selena: Galatians 5.

Ryan: Yes, go there, check it out, fruits of the Spirit, that sort of thing. Finally, sexual attraction, and we talk about this a lot, actually, in our new books. Not to plug them, again, but How a Husband Speaks, How a Wife Speaks, fiercemarriage.com/speak. We talk about how speaking to one another around, during, before, after sex, and how that is a gift from God. And we see it modeled, very clearly, in Song of Solomon.

And, so, Song of Solomon is a book that’s all about attraction. It’s all about pursuit, namely, sexual attraction and sexual pursuit. It’s not allegorical. It’s poetic, but it’s not allegorical.

And, so, in other words, physical desire for your spouse is real, it’s good, and it’s healthy, within a godly marriage. It should be the norm that I want you, that you desire me, and that we value one another’s attractive qualities.

Selena: Yes.
Ryan: There’s beauty that is objective, I feel like, and there’s ugliness that isn’t. If I wake up in the morning, I want to give you a big old kiss and I haven’t brushed my teeth, yet, that’s objectively nasty [laughs].

Selena: This is something we agree on.

Ryan: We agree on this, but brushing your teeth is better.

Selena: Mh-hmm.

Ryan: That’s an obvious one we can laugh about. But it starts to get less obvious when we start getting into this topic more deeply. So with those four ideas, those big ideas, in mind. Is it shallow to care what your spouse looks like? Selena, what say you?

Ryan: I would agree with your notes here. It is shallow if that is the only thing that you are caring about. If you’re only caring about what they look like. If you’re not actually caring about what’s going on in their heart. What’s the motivation or the reason behind why they have maybe stopped caring? Is it a season they’re going through or is it deeper? And do you need to find help, with them, about it.

Ryan: So I’m going to add to that through the contrary point. Is it shallow to care what your spouse looks like? I’m going to say no, it’s not shallow, but with qualifications, and that was, essentially, what you were starting with. Qualifications are this don’t let your expectations of how attractive they are or the type of attraction that you feel toward them. Don’t let that be informed extramaritally.

Selena: What do you mean by that?

Ryan: Well, you’re looking around and you’re seeing we’ve got all these beautiful women in movies, and on TV, and wherever you’re at-

Selena: On the socials.

Ryan: …whatever you’re comparing, that’s extramarital information.

Selena: Right, and it should not be your expectation.

Ryan: No, we calibrate based on the spouse that God has given us. The one that we’ve vowed to give our affection to.

Selena: Right.

Ryan: Here’s another big one, it’s huge. Do not expect your spouse to look the same your entire life, together.

Selena: Especially, after you’ve had kids.

Ryan: Yes, you might think, if you’re in your 20s, there’s not really a huge change from 20 to 30, 30 to 35, 35 to 40, it starts to get more gradual. And that’s where you can start to be more picky and nit-picky about this thing.

Selena: Mh-hmm.

Ryan: I mean, no married couple that gets married through their 20s and 30s, and gets to their 40s and 50s and they’re like, “Oh, yes, you don’t look like you’re 20 anymore. I can take issue with that.” No, there’s a point at which you’re like, “Yes, it’s obvious we’re aging together, this is great. It’s a beautiful thing. We’re growing old together.”

Selena: Mh-hmm.

Ryan: But in the earlier years, or in the years when it’s less noticeable, you can start to forget that you are aging. Age is real. Metabolism is real. Body change is real. As I’m looking at the woman who just bore my fourth daughter, wonderfully, like a warrior, I feel like my metabolism fell off a cliff.

Selena: Oh, mine did do a little bit.

Ryan: I’m like, “No matter what I do.” I think I’m just lifting too heavy. I’m lifting heavy.

Selena: Oh, come on, now.

Ryan: I’m trading fat for muscle, that’s what’s happening [Selena laughs]

Ryan: The scale doesn’t know what it’s measuring.

Selena: And muscle weighs more than fat [laughs] Yes, I don’t expect you to be a supermodel, babe.

Ryan: Yes, don’t expect your spouse to be a supermodel. And here’s the big caveat, again, it’s not shallow to care what your spouse looks like. But remember this, that the goal is health and longevity. I mean, biblically speaking, it’s about stewardship, longevity, not just appearance.

Paul is not writing to Timothy saying, “Timothy, you better look, jacked. If you don’t look jacked, if you don’t have no-neck syndrome, by the time I get there, because your traps are so big, then you’re in sin.” You’re not in sin, just take care of your body. Take care of this thing that God’s given you.

Selena: Right, and don’t be extreme about it either. Because, again, there’s that whole other side of things that’s like “Do all these cleanses, lift the weights, do all the things, so that you won’t die early or whatever.” And I’m just like, “I get it.” Again, it’s a balance. I want to take care of my body but, also, God knows my days. And, so, I’m not going to invest financially to have more life ahead of me, I think in some sense-

Ryan: Wisdom needs to be applied, yes.

Selena: Yes, I do buy certain things, though, that I’m like, “This is, probably, healthier, a healthier choice than…”

Ryan: What do you mean? The syrup from Kirkland Signature? The organic maple syrup?

Selena: No.

Ryan: And every time the girls pour it on their pancakes I’m like, “There’s a dollar.”

Selena: I mean, the green powder that goes into a smoothie when I’m like, “I don’t know if we’ve had enough vegetables.” So anyways.

Ryan: So, again, it’s not shallow, but still, we need to define our beauty and our attractiveness. In terms of what we find attractive by how our spouse looks and by who they are to us, and not just how they compare to everyone else. And, here’s the thing, contentment in this area is needed.

Selena: Mh-hmm.

Ryan: We can be content and say, “This is the spouse God’s given me. I’m content, I’m glad, I’m grateful.” Now you don’t want to say, “You know what, Wife, I’m sure content with you. You’re meh [laughs].”

Selena: He jokes because he knew he would get slapped if he really ever said anything like that.

Ryan: Of course I would, because that’s a very pig-headed thing to say. You’d be a jerk to say something like that, and I would never.

Selena: I would never. I like your salt and pepper, too.

Ryan: Oh, yes, I got a little bit and the old beard.

Selena: It’s good.

Ryan: Yes, well, we’ll see if that keeps coming up. I’m probably not going to die it ever, so you’re welcome.

Selena: Great.

Ryan: Amen.

Selena: Amen.

Ryan: And then here’s the second aspect of that is that should you care what you look like for your spouse? In other words, I care what you look like, you care what I look like. But should I care what I look like for you and vice versa?

Selena: Yes. I think it’s a gift to not just, again, there’s seasons of sweatpants, and having a child, and all those things. And you have to navigate those conversations. Smell is a really big thing to me and, so, I’m like “If he stinks, that’s fine.” But I might ask him to take a shower or something.

Ryan: Which actually doesn’t happen that often.

Selena: No, because you’re pretty self-aware.

Ryan: And I also take showers more than anyone else in this family.

Selena: True. Sorry, I value self-awareness, apparently, he always showers [both laughs]

Ryan: Yes, you do. But here’s the notion is that I’m not my own, my body is not my own, and we talked about this a few weeks back. But I, in a sense, belong to my wife and vice versa. That’s the nature of marriage. That’s very contra culture.

Paul said this in 1 Corinthians 7, “For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise, the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.”

The context of this passage, he’s talking about abstaining from sex for the purpose of prayer, but basically don’t withhold sex from one another. Of course, there’s an attractiveness component to it. But the point is that in some sense, that matters in terms of our sex life. I do not belong to myself, I belong to my wife.

Selena: Yes.

Ryan: That’s the point, and that can be taken into consideration here. Okay, finally, we’ll just end with this. I think you know where we’re landing. I don’t think it’s shallow, but there has to be wisdom applied. It’s not shallow, if you’re not a shallow person, to care about what your spouse looks like.

Selena: Right, and that can’t be the only reason why you care.

Ryan: Yes.

Selena: Clearly, she’s made that point, though, as well. It’s like, “Well, he’s gained this weight, and it makes intimacy difficult when he shaves because he looks completely different. It feels like a different person almost.”

So she’s already peeling back some of the layers which, I think, is wisdom applied. Motives matter, what is going on in your heart matters, and that should matter to our spouse. Because, again, it’s not just the lack of self-control, there’s reasons for that just like there’s reasons for self-control.

Ryan: So there are benefits of making health a right priority in your life. Again, you have to not obsess over it. Not turn into a vain person, who is just trying to look and have all the externalities of health, but not internal health.
Selena: Right.

Ryan: But making health a rightly-ordered priority in your marriage is this; longevity, greater energy, for one another, for your kids. I’d say the effort is attractive.

Selena: Yes, absolutely.

Ryan: We were working out last night, in our garage, and I was doing interval stuff. And I took my shirt off because it’s really hot right now and I just did not feel awesome.

Selena: So, and then what?

Ryan: And I was just like, I remember, I was like, “This is a no judgment zone [both laugh].

Selena: One thing, I guess, because I had said, “Oh, man, my shirt’s coming up and my shorts are falling down.”

Ryan: I was like, “No judgment zone.” We’re just going to push to get it done, just get it done. This is all about health, getting that heart rate up, getting sweat on.

Selena: And it was fun

Ryan: We had fun, and afterward we were encouraging to one another and it was a good time.

Selena: Yes, you never regret those times. So, anyway, I definitely agree, motivation matters. Use discernment, apply wisdom, love one another through the process. See it as an opportunity to grow closer together.

Ryan: So I want to provide a way forward. And, again, we’re picturing in our minds, you’re not CrossFit athletes. We don’t do CrossFit. We barely work out three times a week, together, with our kids running around, interrupting. We’re not saying you have to be these, you can be very much average, in these areas. That’s fine and that’s good. We’re not trying to be anything other than just faithful.

Selena: We’re not promoting any fierce weightlifting or anything like that.

Ryan: Yes, maybe, Selena will someday.
Selena: No.

Ryan: What are our ways forward? Again, run of the mill, we’re average just trying to be faithful believers. What are our ways forward? Here it is. Number one, establish a baseline and that is God’s word. And here’s the baseline, our bodies are to be stewarded, gluttony is a sin, and laziness is serious folly. That’s your baseline.

Number two, establish your goals, and here’s what I would say the goal is just health.

Selena: Right, that’s what it’s been for us.

Ryan: Healthy heart, healthy body fat percentage. All that stuff that comes along with just health.

Number three, calibrate your expectations based on age, your stage of life, the season you’re in, any health issues you face. Those all need to be factored in. Body type, all that kind of, stuff. We are not going to be the same people that we were when we were 25 years old.

Selena: True.

Ryan: It’s not going to happen. And then the final way forward, number four, is establish ways and permission to talk about it.

Selena: That’s good.

Ryan: And you’re like, “If I’m letting myself go and you know.” I hope you know.

Selena: Yes, well, and I think just expect a little bit of blowback. I notice that when either of us gets confronted by either of us, about ourselves, we are very quick to either throw up the defenses, or to make it all about me, or to divert it, or just deflect it.

So there’s going to be some of those just, “Whoa.” And anger or whatever, just let it cool down and then come back together and say, “No, let’s talk about this. This is important, our health is important for the things that God has for us, and in terms of stewarding each other, and stewarding our children, and giving Him glory in all that we do.” So have this conversations of baseline matters.

Ryan: That’s good, and that’s why baseline matters. When we say that it’s not just about part of the beautiful people’s club.

Selena: It’s not about losing 100 pounds.

Ryan: It’s not about whatever vain metric we’re using. It’s about are we stewarding our bodies, our health? Are we obeying God’s word? Are we mortifying sin, in our lives, in a way that is glorifying to God? And then when we have that baseline, we can go and say, “Hey, let’s talk about our baseline here. Are we good?”

Anyway, I hope that’s helpful to you. If you don’t know who Jesus is, we want you to know Him. We encourage you to talk to a friend, say, “Who is Jesus?”

Selena: Your Christian friends are waiting. They’re waiting for you; they’re praying for you.

Ryan: Say, “Can we go to church?” Find a church that preaches out of the Bible, not from out of the pastor’s head but out of the Bible, that’s huge. If you don’t have a friend that you can talk to or a church that you know of, we have a website for you. It’s thenewsisgood.com, and we pray that would be a blessing to you and help you get your step on that path, toward knowing Christ.

Let’s pray. God, I thank you for your word that’s instructive, even in topics like these. I pray that we would be wise stewards of these bodies you’ve given us. The gift of our physicality, the gift it is to be able to operate in the world that you’ve created, in a way that glorifies you. I pray that we would see that rightly and be good stewards over our bodies with the right motivation,

Lord. It’s so easy to have wrong motivation over stuff like this. But I pray that our motivation would be pure, and that is to obey and honor and glorify you even more. In Jesus name, Amen.

Selena: Amen.

Ryan: All right, thank you so much for tuning in to Fierce Marriage, this episode, of Fierce Marriage, is—

Selena: In the can—

Ryan: And we’ll see you again in seven days. Until next time, stay fierce.

Selena: Stay fierce.