Podcast, Sex & Intimacy

Intimacy Without Frustration, Obligation, or Missed Expectations

Many couples wonder how to gain agreement about sex and intimacy when life is busy, schedules are hectic, and expectations for sex seem constantly misaligned.

If you’re at all like Selena and me, you and your spouse probably don’t desire sex the same way or with the same frequency. This can cause frustration in your marriage that, if left untreated or undiscussed, can turn into bitterness, division, and worse. Sex isn’t everything in marriage, but it is very important to be unified and satisfied in your sex life together—for your enjoyment and for God’s ultimate glory.

In today’s episode of The Fierce Marriage Podcast, we’ll discuss:

  • What if my husband/wife wants sex more than I do?
  • How can we be intimate without feeling obligated to do so?

Transcript Shownotes

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Mentioned in Today’s Show:

Show Notes:

Intimacy Without Frustration, Obligation, or Missed Expectations

  • We’re thankful for your listenership. We spent a few days counted among the top 10 podcasts of our category (Christianity, Kids & Family). Thank you!
  • Ryan and Selena shared their highs and lows of the week.
  • Two listeners asked:
    • What if my husband/wife wants sex more than I do?
    • How can we be intimate without feeling obligated to do so?
  • We read 1 Corinthians 7:5:
    “Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.”
  • A few cautions when reading the above passage:
    • It’s not a tool to be used to demand sex in marriage.
    • In context, this verse is about acting in mutual agreement to the common goal of greater intimacy and reliance on Christ.
    • By choosing to abstain from sex for a time, to focus on spiritual growth. This is not a form of asceticism, but rather a method of grace-fueled worship.
  • If a couple is not actively agreeing to abstain from sex, they’re passively (or actively) agreeing to NOT abstain from sex. If that’s the case, your sex life should look “normal and healthy” for you, but it may take some digging to discover what that means. We proposed two steps:
    • Clearly define what “not abstaining” looks like and what a healthy, normal sex life looks like in your marriage.
    • Calibrate your expectations for sex. Read our post, “The Spectrum of Sex”.
  • Couples Challenge:
    1. Read The Spectrum of Sex together or separately.
    2. Discuss your expectations for sex, and what your spectrum might look like.
    3. Identify what a normal, healthy sex life looks like for your marriage and within God’s design for sexuality.
    4. Create an action plan for building a normal, healthy sex life together.
  • We discussed our partnership with Datebox. Get a FREE box by using our link to sign up. (This deal will expire very soon, FYI.)
  • Ryan answered Selena’s Rapid-Fire Q&A. Many laughs were had…
  • We read a letter from a wife to her husband. It was super sweet and encouraging.
  • We discussed The 31-Day Pursuit Challenge. You should do it; it will change your marriage.
  • We closed in prayer.
  • Ask any question, leave us a voicemail, or write a letter to your spouse.

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More questions?

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Scripture, Show Notes, and Resources Mentioned

  • [00:10:01]
    • Scripture reference:
      • 1 Corinthians 7:5, ESV
        • Note: A few cautions when reading the above passage:
          • It’s not a tool to be used to demand sex in marriage.
          • In context, this verse is about acting in mutual agreement to the common goal of greater intimacy and reliance on Christ.
          • By choosing to abstain from sex for a time, to focus on spiritual growth. This is not a form of asceticism, but rather a method of grace-fueled worship.
          • If a couple is not actively agreeing to abstain from sex, they’re passively (or actively) agreeing to NOT abstain from sex. If that’s the case, your sex life should look “normal and healthy” for you, but it may take some digging to discover what that means. We proposed two steps:
          • Clearly define what “not abstaining” looks like and what a healthy, normal sex life looks like in your marriage.
          • Calibrate your expectations for sex. Read our post, “The Spectrum of Sex”.
  • Other Notes:
    • Read about The Spectrum of Sex on our blog.
    • Learn more about Datebox and get your first month at a discount.
    • Learn more about The 31-Day Pursuit Challenge, & get 22% off the books when you buy the bundle. (You should do it; it will change your marriage.)
    • Two listeners asked:
      • What if my husband/wife wants sex more than I do?
      • How can we be intimate without feeling obligated to do so?
    • Couple’s Challenge:
      • Read The Spectrum of Sex together or separately.
      • Discuss your expectations for sex, and what your spectrum might look like.
      • Identify what a normal, healthy sex life looks like for your marriage and within God’s design for sexuality.
      • Create an action plan for building a normal, healthy sex life together.
    • Ask any question, leave us a voicemail, or write a letter to your spouse here.
    • We’re thankful for your listenership. We spent a few days counted among the top 10 podcasts of our category (Christianity, Kids & Family). Thank you!

Full Episode Transcript

Ryan:
Hey guys. Ryan here from Fierce Marriage. I just wanted to take a quick second and say thank you to all of you, our amazing listeners. So far, the response to our first episode was incredible! And for us, it’s extremely encouraging! We even spent a few days in the top ten of our category on iTunes, which is very exciting! There are literally thousands of podcasts, and yet you are choosing to listen to us. So, thank you! And in return, we hope to continue creating Gospel-centered resources that will help strengthen your marriage. So, with that, here’s episode two! Take care, guys.

[00:00:38]

<Intro Sequence>

[00:01:05]
Selena:
Hey everybody! Welcome to Fierce—

Ryan:
Hey, hey!

Selena:
Marriage podcast!

Ryan:
Welcome! Episode two.

Selena:
Number two. [Chuckles] We’re so happy to have you guys, and we are excited to be doing another podcast! This has actually been really fun for us and probably good for our marriage. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Yeah! Yeah, it’s been a lot of fun. Like I said in our last episode, it’s something that I’ve been wanting to do for a long time. I didn’t think it was going to be as fun as it is!

Selena:
Thank you. [Laughs]

Ryan:
It’s just—

Selena:
[Laughing] Just kidding.

Ryan:
What I love about it, it’s almost like we’re just talking to each other. And…

Selena:
We’re having quality conversation.

Ryan:
[Laughing] Yeah!

Selena:
That’s uninterrupted! [Laughs]

Ryan:
It is!

Selena:
It’s good things, good times.

Ryan:
It is! So, as we like to do, we’re going to open up with our highs and lows for the past week or the past few days. So, I brought it up first, so Selena, you get to answer first.

Selena:
No, I did first last time. [Ryan laughs] Your highs, your lows! [Selena laughs]

Ryan:
Uh, okay.

Selena:
We could start with lows.

Ryan:
My low?! My low for the past week was probably… You know what? It’s kind of a general low. I feel like I’ve had a really hard time focusing this week. I’ll sit down and try to get some stuff done, and there’s just… If you’ve ever been so overwhelmed, it’s like you’re drinking from a fire hose… [Selena snickers] And I can’t seem to get on top of it and it’s like I just want to give up. [Ryan quickly snickers]

Selena:
Hmm…

Ryan:
I just want to give up. There’s just too much to do. And so… I don’t know. I have figured it out quite yet. [Both chuckle] It’s nice to have to record this, because it’s like you just sit down and you can’t get distracted. You have to do it! So, that’s nice, but that’s not how the rest of my week has been.

Selena:
Hm… I’m sorry, babe. That’s hard!

Ryan:
Yeah…

Selena:
That’s really hard.

Ryan:
First world problems in this… [Both chuckle] Alright, how about your low?

Selena:
Umm… My low is… probably my neck and my back kind of went out a little bit.

Ryan:
Oh, that’s right!

Selena:
I reached for something weird, and all the muscles started tightening and then it just makes picking kids up and being alive [Both laugh] kind of painful! So, that’s a little bit of a low. But it’s getting better, so…

Ryan:
I’ll give you a master massage later.

Selena:
Okay. Thank you.

Ryan:
With “crab hands.” [Selena laughs] Just…

Selena:
That’s not the right one!

Ryan:
Just a— [Both laugh]

Selena:
My high is that the sun shine’s been out! We’ve had a really hot day, actually. Hot for us is 80, so, that is hot day.

Ryan:
Yeah, wow.

Selena:
And sunshine means kids can go outside. We can be outside. [More quietly] We like to be outside as much as possible. So… [Resumes normal tone] That’s my high!

Ryan:
That’s awesome!

Selena:
Yeah! What’s your high?

Ryan:
Yeah! My high has… Actually, last night I got to hang out with a close friend of mine, Jake.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
That was a lot of fun. He’s just a brother in Christ, and we got to just kind of talk. Yeah, it’s not something that I do enough of. And yeah, I just really value those brothers and the guys that you can just be honest with and open with, you can laugh hard with [Chuckles] them.

Selena:
Yeah. And he’s in our community group.

Ryan:
Yep!

Selena:
From church, which is—

Ryan:
He is!

Selena:
Kind of fun.

Ryan:
So, funny thing is we tried to go to this place. It’s kind of this swanky sort of like hipster hangout, right? [Selena chuckles] In our town. And I’m not big on those scenes. They kind of frustrate me because I never really fit the bill. Anyway! So, I go in there; I got there early. Jake was running late ‘cause of just putting the kids to sleep. And I got there late, and it was packed, and I immediately felt so awkward. [Selena giggles] There’s all these dudes and dudettes… [Chuckle]

Selena:
[Chuckling] Be nice! Be nice.

Ryan:
They’re just in their total, “I’m cooler than you,” garb, with really cool haircuts, really weird, like weird, facial piercings and stuff like that! [Both chuckle] It’s in a— It’s in a bit of a rougher part of the town. So, I get it! Anyway. I go in, and… I’m kind of put-out by it. And Jake was late, so I was sitting really awkwardly. [Selena giggles] I was like a wallflower, and everybody was looking at me like I was weirdo.

[00:05:06]
Selena:
I doubt that…

Ryan:
I’m wearing these cargo shorts, and a long sleeve t-shirt. [Selena snickers] Anyway! I hung out there long enough; Jake gets there, and he’s like, “All right! Well…” And I said, “Do you want to go somewhere else?” [Ryan chuckles and Selena laughs] “This feels crowded. I’ve been sitting here for, like, 15 minutes and no body’s even come ask what I wanted.” And so, we got up and went to this really, truly dive bar. [Selena snickers] It was called “Parky’s.” And that was a lot of fun, because, man, these are the people that are just like off the beaten pa— truly off the beaten path. [Selena chuckles] And I say, “dive bar,” it was just like a little community… hang out, basically, with a jukebox and some micro beers and what not. [Selena chuckles] Micro brews, I should say. [Both chuckle] Yeah, so, anyway! That was a lot of fun, and we got a huge kick out of it and I’ll probably go there before I go to the other place now. So… [Selena giggles] Yeah.

Selena:
A little more easy going?

Ryan:
Anyway! [Selena giggles] All right! So, for today, we are going to be covering kind of a sensitive topic! But we’re just going to, I think, bite off a little piece of it, so that we don’t overdo it and try to tackle too much at once. But it has to do with intimacy. Intimacy and sex!

Selena:
And we’ll probably do—We’ll obviously do more podcasts about this—

Ryan:
Yes, for sure!

Selena:
So, this is just kind of a little…

Ryan:
For sure!

Selena:
A little part of it!

Ryan:
Yeah! So today, we’re actually going to answer a question we received from a reader/listener. And the question… There’s actually two questions here; they’re kind of… intertwined. The first one—So they’re two different readers, but the questions are similar. They were:
“What should I do if my husband and I don’t desire sex in the same way or in the same frequency?”
And the second question is:
“How can we be intimate without feeling obligated?”

Selena:
Really good questions.

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
Really good questions.

Ryan:
Yeah, so Selena, what do you think?

Selena:
[Clears throat] Excuse me.

Ryan:
I’m going to put you on the spot here.

Selena:
What should I do if my husband and I don’t desire sex at the same frequency? I think that can just be in general if husbands… or wives… There’s different desire levels, I believe. I mean, if we can be honest, I think generally speaking, you desire it more than I do!

Ryan:
Yeah, I think that’s honest.

Selena:
Just in kind of how you’re made, how God designed you and how we’re created. But for me, I guess that just gives me an opportunity to be selfless in my love for you and to be generous and giving of myself, you know? Kind of body and soul!

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
And do I always want to? No. [Quick laugh] You know, after a long day with hard, hard children sometimes, and just physically I’m tired, I think we, as wives and moms, can all attest to that.

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
It’s hard to be like, “All right. Let’s get sexy and do this.” [Laughs]

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
You know, it sometimes comes at a higher price than we want to pay, but—

Ryan:
And that used to be a big point of contention for us.

Selena:
Yes! Oh yeah!

Ryan:
Because—

Selena:
It’s been a journey, getting to…

Ryan:
Well, yeah, and there’s even—

Selena:
The selfless part.

Ryan:
Before we had kids, that was the case.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
So, there were—

Selena:
Yep!

Ryan:
There’s plenty of times when you’ve just had a long day, whether you’re working or doing whatever…

Selena:
Yeah…

Ryan:
And—

Selena:
And the last thing you want to do is give of yourself… fully.

Ryan:
Yeah! Especially if you’re not in the mood.

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
Right? If you’re not feeling it, or you’re not, you know—?

Selena:
Yeah, yeah!

Ryan:
And so, to have this other person basically say, “Give me that.” [Both laugh] It’s really off-putting because you don’t—

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
You feel like you have to, like… Yeah! And so, there has to be some middle ground in a marriage, to where you are on the same page!

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And you’re communicating about. And a lot of our early frustration around the idea of what I’ll call the, “asymmetrical desire for sex,” basically when one side wants it more than the other.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Or one side’s more versed to it than the other. A lot of our early issues around that topic were because we didn’t really talk about it in a way that was constructive to where we could get on the same page. So…

Selena:
I think we were more wanting to be heard, rather than hearing each other. You know, I was like, “Well, this is how I feel, and this is what I want,” and…

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
I just wanted you to hear it! I didn’t want to hear what [Laughing] you had to say necessarily.

Ryan:
And then I also just wanted you just to know—

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
“Okay. I’m not asking for the world,” or at least I didn’t think I was. [Selena laughs] But in reality, you felt like I was!

Selena:
Yeah, yeah.

Ryan:
Because I was just basically being… I wasn’t being demanding. I wasn’t like—

Selena:
No, no.

Ryan:
Like, “Get me!” You know? I wasn’t… [Selena laughs] But at the same time, you would feel like I was.

Selena:
It seemed like every time you asked it was like, “Didn’t we just do it?!” [Both laugh]

Ryan:
“It’s been five days!” or, it’s, you know?

Selena:
[Chuckling] Yeah.

Ryan:
And so, yeah. So, that’s funny. So, I think the key to that is having an honest conversation around it, but before we do that I think it’s important to understand, at least from a really basic, foundational level, the role that sex is supposed to play!

Selena:
Right… Right.

Ryan:
In a marriage according to God’s design.

[00:10:01]
Selena:
Yep.

Ryan:
And yeah, it’s a huge topic, but I just…

Selena:
But that’s really help facilitate my perspective as far as being selfless and an opportunity to love you!

Ryan:
Well, and it’s also facilitated my perspective—

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
In becoming more selfless, and asking and not just thinking, “Okay, physiologically, I want this, so I’m going to ask for it,” but really thinking, “Okay, where is my wi—” I can be more selfless, too.

Selena:
Or taking into consideration…

Ryan:
Right! It’s always, always—

Selena:
Each other!

Ryan:
Generous toward each other.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
You know, it comes from this understanding of where sex is supposed to… stand—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
In the big picture. So, let’s just look at I Corinthians 7:5. It says, “Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.” So, what I don’t want to do, I don’t want to use this verse as a stick to beat people over the head with. Right?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And I’ve unfortunately seen a lot of husbands, and wives… basically say, “Give me sex because now you’re depriving me, and we did not agree to this.”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
“So, you have to give it to me.”

Selena:
And then you have the whole “submission” issues kind of creeping in just a little bit.

Ryan:
Right! And that’s manipulation, it’s abuse—

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And it’s twisting God’s word for your own—

Selena:
Right, right!

Ryan:
For your own desire, and that’s not what Paul was getting at here. What he was getting at here is we’re actually—

Selena:
You could look at the context of it all.

Ryan:
If you look at the context—

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And you look up into the earlier part of chapter 7 of I Corinthians… So, how we open the first chapter is he said, “Now, concerning the matters about which you wrote.” So, he’s quoting this back to them. They said to him, “It’s good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” In verse 2, he said, “But because the temptation of sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.” So, this is Corinth, right? So, without getting a huge exposition of it, Corinth is a port city in the middle of modern-day Greece, and it’s right between two big pieces of land and it’s on this isthmus of land right between them.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
So, what that meant for the time is it was a thriving metropolis!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
There’s a lot of trade.

Selena:
A lot of culture. A lot of social—

Ryan:
A lot of culture.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Yeah! And if you think of just New York City, what that looks like from a busyness standpoint, from a worldliness standpoint—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
That’s what Corinth was on a smaller scale for sure. But that’s how it felt. So, when they’re writing about sex, they’re asking Paul, “It’s better for guys to abstain, right? It’s better for men to not have sex with women?” And later on in the chapter, it says, “Yes, however, if it’s a temptation…”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
“It’s good. Get married so you can enjoy sex within the boundary God has designed.”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And then, enjoy it. You don’t have to abstain.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
If you feel it’s better for you to get married than to burn with passion, is what he said at one point…

Selena:
‘Cause this asceticism, right? That’s what you were—

Ryan:
Right, right! So, they were leaning toward the idea of asceticism, and what asceticism is, is this thought that you should refuse all indulgence in the name of spiritual propriety, right?

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
It’s good to not indulge in any pleasure of the flesh, and the more you withhold it, the holier you are. And Paul is basically saying that’s not the case.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Sex is here as a gift as long as it’s used in the right context and as long as you’re agreement with your spouse.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And so, when he talks about not withholding from each other, that’s what he’s saying, is—What he’s trying to do is to get them on the same page—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
On the purpose of what it is. And the purpose in this chapter, in this context, is to work together toward the common goal of becoming more holy, more righteous, more accurate depictions—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Reflections of Christ.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Right. So that’s where this is coming from. It’s not a verse that you beat your spouse over the head with.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Whenever you’re feeling frisky! [Selena laughs and Ryan chuckles] That’s not the purpose of this verse! The verse is to remind us that we are to use sex as a tool, and we’re supposed to communicate about sex—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
So that we can be unified in our pursuit of righteousness, whether that’s fasting for a time from it so we can pray and so we can focus on spiritual nourishment, spiritual growth…

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And it’s being generous with it toward each other, so that it’s not a huge distraction.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
Or it’s not a huge temptation. I know for me, that’s one of the biggest things I say to Selena. It’s like… If it’s been a period of time that’s longer than usual for us, which our average is like every two to three days.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Just to be totally transparent! So, say it’s been four or five days. It’s really hard to focus for me.

Selena:
Yeah! Yeah, yeah.

Ryan:
And temptation becomes a huge— I shouldn’t say “huge”. It just becomes a bigger, more obvious stumbling block.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And I spend all day on my computer, and it’s like… I’m terrified, frankly, that I’m going to…

Selena:
You spend all day working on your computer, and there’s all—

Ryan:
Yes!

Selena:
So, there’s a lot of—

Ryan:
Yes.

Selena:
Exposure and potential—

Ryan:
Right! And even if you’re not looking for temptation on the internet—

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
It’s there.

Selena:
Things just… pop up! [Chuckles]

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
Yeah! And exposure, yeah.

[00:15:01]
Ryan:
And so, I have to be really sensitive not to be like, “If you don’t give me sex, you’re going to ‘cause me to sin.”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
That’s manipulation!

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
But what I can say is, “Hey, this is really hard for me. It’s difficult. And if—”

Selena:
You’re struggling, and—

Ryan:
“We can’t do this thing, then let’s pray together.”

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
“’Cause it’s really becoming more of a challenge for me.”

Selena:
Right. And as a wife, I can lovingly close those doors on temptation, and close those doors on exposure, you know? And we are each other’s accountability partners. And we ask each other kind of the hard questions without prying. But with caring, with our souls really just being kind of transparent and open with each other. And so, I know he’s struggling! We’ve been married for 14 years, going on 15, and wives, you just start getting that sense. You just start knowing. You know when it’s been too long. And honestly, on my side, things do get harder! They get more difficult as far as communication. They get more difficult. I mean, women have sexual frustration as well! I mean, I don’t think it shows up quiet as much— Well, at least for us. But there’s this longing that I feel like God has designed in us to want to be together physically and spiritually, and just all of the ways! [Both giggle]

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
So, it’s not this check-list thing to do, which sometimes it feels like that initially. But when you actually are in the moment and you give yourself over, and you just are loving your husband and giving of yourself, there’s a beautiful freedom in that, in that it’s the same person, there’s no fear, there’s no insecurity, there’s just confidence and beauty and…

Ryan:
True.

Selena:
All of the things that you want to have within those boundaries is thriving.

Ryan:
So, the question then—

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Is, okay, how do we… gain agreement on this topic?

Selena:
Yes, yes.

Ryan:
The verse says, “Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time.” So, to me that implies that if you’re abstaining, it’s by agreement, but if you’re not abstaining, it’s also by agreement.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Right? So, that’s, I think, the first step, is having a very clear understanding of what it means for you and your husband, or you and your wife, to not be abstaining from sex. Sex is a normal, healthy part of every marriage.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
So, you need to have a conversation about what normal and healthy looks like for you. For us, we had this conversation about five years back, where we said, “Okay. I think two to three days in between—”

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
“Our intimacy is about where we’re healthy.”

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
“Both with our emotions for the physical aspect of it. And so, having that conversation’s a first step. The next step, I think, is figuring out and calibrating your expectations!

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Right?

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
So, [Snicker] the analogy we always use if you’ve read our blog, yeah, I think you’ll probably be familiar with this, but I always think about it like there’s a spectrum! Right? There’s a spectrum of sex, and—

Selena:
Right… Yep.

Ryan:
There’s some that’s really deep, intense, more of like…

Selena:
Involved?

Ryan:
Yeah! More involved, much more verbose [Chuckle]—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
In terms of what’s being said and how long it takes to say those things, metaphorically speaking!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And then there’s really fast, [Said together in unity] functional sex. [Selena giggles] Yeah.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
So, if you look at it like a spectrum, you’ve got the really functional and the very impractical.

Selena:
Yeah. And you—

Ryan:
Passionate sex.

Selena:
The post is called The Spectrum of Sex.

Ryan:
Yes!

Selena:
If you want to go look it up.

Ryan:
Yeah, if you go to FierceMarriage.com and just search for The Spectrum of Sex or search for sex, you’ll find it in there.

Selena:
Right. And—

Ryan:
So, we had a conversation early on—

Selena:
Yes!

Ryan:
Or not early on, not early enough frankly. [Selena laughs] But about five years ago, about like, what does this look like for us? What should our expectations be? And, in general, what does it look like to have fast, functional sex, what does it look like to have more drawn out sex and how often do those things need to happen?

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And so, before…

Selena:
Children.

Ryan:
Well— [Selena laughs, and Ryan snickers and then laughs] I wasn’t going to go there. I was going to say, say we decide, okay, we need to be close, we need to be intimate… And we only have so many… minutes. Right? We can say, okay, Selena will say, “You’ve got ten minutes.” [Both laugh] “You’ve got thirty seconds!”

Selena:
No…

Ryan:
And so, we just know, okay [Snaps fingers], there’s no room for extra.

Selena:
Gives it a little functional—

Ryan:
It’s very functional.

Selena:
This is kind of fun, like just kind of crazy and fast and—

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
Go for it!

Ryan:
Yep! And then there’s other ones where, and I’ve said this to you, and we’re like, “Hey, I don’t want this just to be some, ‘Wham-bam-thank you ma’am’ thing. Let’s try to make this more romantic.”

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
More involved.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And so, we set aside that time. Nowadays, that means it takes a lot of extra planning. [Selena snickers] And a lot of moving the pieces around to make sure our kids are either gone or asleep, and then we have enough time. But that takes a lot more work! So… Anyway. How has that helped you, Sel? I mean…

[00:20:02]
Selena:
I think it’s definitely provided some freedom, mentally and spiritually. It’s just like, “Okay! These are the parameters on today. I can meet this, yes! Let’s do this.” The more involved stuff, I feel like sometimes, just because of the season of our life, I think we operate on the more functional. And so, when the opportunities come for more involved, intense times, it takes a little bit more, I think, gearing up mentally for me to just put the distractions aside. And to focus on you and where I’m at.

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
And where we’re at in life. Just being together, being present—

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
I think is probably— Just getting to that agreement. “Okay. We’re present! We’re here. [Deep inhale] Okay!” That’s where the work happens. And then, just being with you is amazing, of course! You know, that’s a great time. But I think for me, and I don’t if most wives are like this, I feel just getting to that point is probably the hardest obstacle to get through.

Ryan:
Right! Right. And so, from a husband’s perspective, again I want to reiterate… As a husband, your goal is to always communicate to your wife in love. And whether it’s how you’re saying things or how you’re asking for things, or even how you’re carrying yourself in the bedroom—

Selena:
Mm-hm…

Ryan:
[Inhales] You never want to steamroll your wife. Because if she feels steamrolled because you’re just demanding something and you’re taking what you want from her—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
That’s not something that can be done in love. But I think it goes against how we’re called to love our wives.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
According to how Christ has loved the church, right?

Selena:
Right. There’s a selflessness to it, you know?

Ryan:
Right!

Selena:
Women inviting husbands to enjoy themselves or—

Ryan:
Right!

Selena:
You know?

Ryan:
So, like Selena said early on, her neck is out. Something happened to which we tweaked it.

Selena:
No trapeze sex. [Laughs]

Ryan:
No what? [Selena laughs harder] No trapeze sex? [Ryan chuckles] Yes. [Inhales deeply] Ahhh…

Selena:
[Laughing] Just kidding.

Ryan:
All right, by the way, Fierce Marriage [Selena bursts out laughing] can let the line move. Trapeze implements. Yeah. [Ryan chuckles] But we had talked about, I think yesterday, and I was like, I didn’t ask, because I know that you were hurting!

Selena:
Yeah, yeah.

Ryan:
Or I know that you had a hard day. I’m not going to come and pile one more thing on top of your list of things to do today.

Selena:
Which is encouraging to me and is motivating to me, frankly, to want to give. Yeah.

Ryan:
And then, the other time you said we were getting frisky. [Both laugh] And Selena said, “Hey, you know I’m doing this because I love you, right, and—”

Selena:
I was tryi—

Ryan:
You just reminded me that for you it was… an expression of love, just—

Selena:
A sacrifice, like—

Ryan:
Yeah, and you were very sweet about how you reminded me of that. And it was really good to remember that. And it made me feel very loved. And it wasn’t like this—

Selena:
I wasn’t throwing it in your face! I was trying to, like—

Ryan:
Yeah, yeah! I know you weren’t.

Selena:
Show you my love deeper! Like—

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
It’s not just me showing up here, but all these things that could be happening at this time, or should be happening, like everything that I have to do or whatever.

Ryan:
Mm-hm!

Selena:
Those are all stopping because I’m making you a priority and I want to love you, because I know this speaks volumes to you!

Ryan:
Which, when you said it, it became crystal clear that that’s what you were doing.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And I just needed the reminder. And it did, and it was really good to hear.

Selena:
Sometimes we—

Ryan:
I felt very loved. Yeah.

Selena:
Yeah, sometimes we just assume that each other knows that and it’s…

Ryan:
Right.

Selena:
Never assume. [Laughs]

Ryan:
Yeah! Yeah. So, all of this has the caveat of if you have a history of sexual pain somehow—

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Whether it’s dealing with pornography addiction, any unfaithfulness…

Selena:
Maybe there was abuse.

Ryan:
Any sort of sexual abuse.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Whether it’s before or during your marriage, anything like that, then obviously you have a very different lens about sex.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And it’s very important that you hear our hearts in that we’re not trying to prescribe some catch-all fix for every marriage.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
But I think in general, these principals will hold true, assuming there’s a good amount of psychological and emotional health there!

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
If you’re not in a good place, if you’re not in a healthy place, either yourself or in your marriage, then sex will just be an amplification of that.

Selena:
Right…

Ryan:
So, it’s critical that you go and get…

Selena:
Professional…

Ryan:
Professional…

Selena:
Counsel. Godly—

Ryan:
Good counsel—

Selena:
Yeah, yeah.

Ryan:
Godly counsel I think is the first prerequisite.

Selena:
Yeah…

Ryan:
That somebody who cares about what God’s word says…

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
And then somebody who knows you.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
And then, somebody who knows just how the human mind and psyche works.

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
Being a psychologist or a therapist or whatever.

Selena:
Right, right.

Ryan:
So, that’s the big caveat. So, with that, we do have a Couple’s Challenge.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
So, I think… I don’t know! I think for this week’s challenge, if you’re listening to this, we’re going to encourage you to talk to your spouse, your husband or your wife, about your spectrum of sex.

Selena:
Yeah! I’d encourage you to go read it. It’s a quick read! You wrote it really well.

Ryan:
The blog post?

Selena:
Yeah, the blog post!

Ryan:
Okay.

Selena:
I think both of you should say, “Hey, let’s read this and talk about it.”

Ryan:
It will be in the show notes, too, for this podcast—

Selena:
Yeah!

[00:25:00]
Ryan:
For this episode. But yeah, go read that and then have a good, candid conversation with your husband or your wife.

Selena:
What you liked about the post, what you didn’t like maybe—

Ryan:
Mm-hm!

Selena:
And what it means to not deprive each other.

Ryan:
Right!

Selena:
What does that look like in your marriage?

Ryan:
Yep! That’s really good. And then, if you can, try to come up with at least some what of an action plan.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
For us, discovering the frequency that was healthy for us was huge.

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
It calibrated our expectations. At one point before we had kids, we actually had to schedule where we were going to do— It wasn’t rigid, but in general, it was like we knew that Tuesdays and Fridays… [Selena giggles] were like, if we hadn’t done it— [Ryan laughs]

Selena:
Right.

Ryan:
That that’s a good time to, like—

Selena:
That’s a good time to—

Ryan:
Perk our ears up.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
So, maybe talk about that. Just have a real candid conversation and create a plan if you can.

Selena:
Absolutely.

Ryan:
All right! So, next up, we are—

Selena:
Rapid-fire questions, finally! [Ryan laughs] I had to answer them last time, and he…

Ryan:
If you— Yeah, and now it’s my turn. [Laughs]

Selena:
It’s your turn! [Chuckles]

Ryan:
[Laughing] To answer.

Selena:
Doot-doot-loooo!

Ryan:
So, yeah. Those are coming up. [Intermission music begins] But stay tuned and we’ll be right back.

[Short musical intermission & advertisement]

Ryan:
All right, well, this week’s episode of the Fierce Marriage podcast is brought to you by our friends at Datebox!

Selena:
Woo! Datebox.

Ryan:
Yeah, they actually are friends of ours.

Selena:
They really are friends. [Laughs]

Ryan:
They’re not just paying us to be their friends. Brett Kolomyjec is the founder, and he is an amazing thinker! But he came up with this idea a few years back when we were pretty new to the blogging game.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
He said he wondered what I thought. I said that sounds great; keep me posted. And he went and did the whole Silicon Valley, get funders, and…

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Lots of money. And he funded this thing and now has this incredible business called Datebox.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
And what they do is they send out these monthly themed boxes to people that subscribe to their service. And they are over the top! I think the box cost is around $30-$35 per month!

Selena:
For the subscribers.

Ryan:
For the subscribers; there’s also a cheaper digital option. It’s like $8.

Selena:
But there’s a ton of stuff in it! Like, quality.

Ryan:
But the value’s got to be close to $50-$100.

Selena:
Quality stuff. Yeah! Stuff you’ll reuse!

Ryan:
I think last week we mentioned that one of our favorite boxes was…

Selena:
The coffee box.

Ryan:
The coffee roasting experience.

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
Well, I forgot to mention that Selena actually bought me a burr grinder for…

Selena:
A gift.

Ryan:
A gift or something. And it was like you bought it on Amazon. It was really nice, came in this really nice package!

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
And I had been using that, and then I got this box from Brett, a Datebox, and it had the exact same burr grinder in there.

Selena:
Low and behold. Yeah.

Ryan:
And it was a really high-quality thing. Anyway! That’s the kind of stuff that you get in these date boxes.

Selena:
Yeah. They’re curated.

Ryan:
Besides just the stuff, the experience of hanging out together—

Selena:
Yeah! Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Is huge!

Selena:
Yeah! They give you a playlist. They give you convo topics. There’s a whole little booklet, a whole just… setting the whole mood, really!

Ryan:
Well, if I said to you, Selena, “Hey, we’re going to go on a date night tonight,” in my head, I’m thinking I’ll take you to a nice restaurant and we’ll go hang out on the water front.

Selena:
[In an accent] Like seafood dinner! [Laughs and resumes normal voice]

Ryan:
[Laughing] Yeah. And we’ll probably spend a hundred bucks.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Maybe less if we go cheap on the dinner and then go to a movie or something.

Selena:
[Laughing] At the most, yes.

Ryan:
But the experience is almost always going to be some— You know, it’s always fun because we’re together, but it’s… If you do that a lot—

Selena:
It’s pretty—

Ryan:
It can get pretty—

Selena:
It’s pretty expected and typical. Yeah.

Ryan:
Yeah, it can get pretty forgettable, frankly.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And so, these Datebox, at least once a month I know we’re going to have something that’s unique and unforgettable.

Selena:
Yep, yep.

Ryan:
So, anyway! If that sounds fun to you, we encourage you to check it out. Like I said, they’re friends of ours. By subscribing, you do support us. But also, you’re going to build intimacy in your marriage and closeness.

Selena:
Right. It’s super creative!

Ryan:
Yeah, it’s very creative!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
So, if you’re interested in that, just go to FierceMarriage.com/datebox. What that does is it will just redirect you to their website and it will apply the code for a free month!

Selena:
Yeah! That’s awesome!

Ryan:
And you don’t even have sign up for multiple months. You can just try one month…

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
No commitment. You’ll pay $5 for shipping and you get a free box whenever the next box ships.

Selena:
It’s very cool, very cool.

Ryan:
So, anyway, check that out! Go to FierceMarriage.com/datebox.

Selena:
Awesome!

Ryan:
And we hope it blesses you!

Selena:
Awesome!

Ryan:
All right!

Selena:
[Inhales deeply] All right!

Ryan:
Now, remember—

Selena:
Rapid-fire questions! [Music plays] You’re turnnn.

Ryan:
Ahh… I was hoping to avoid this one. This is—

Selena:
Yep… Last week—

Ryan:
We should—We remember that time?

Selena:
No!

Ryan:
We should probably just—

Selena:
No. Okay! [Ryan chuckles lightly] I’ll start ya off easy! Start ya off easy.

Ryan:
Good.

Selena:
Since you’re such a music guy, favorite band and why? You can only have one.

Ryan:
Favori— [Snicker] Aw, man.

Selena:
Told ya! It’s hard!

Ryan:
Well, it’s actually not really a band.

Selena:
Oh! Okay, well, musi— No. It has to be a specific.

Ryan:
Oh, my word.

Selena:
You can’t just pick a genre.

Ryan:
This is very hard. [Snicker]

Selena:
It’s really hard for him; I knew it would be! [Both laugh]

Ryan:
Uh, I’m going to say Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Selena:
O-kay!

Ryan:
Because he’s got a lot to choose from.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
He’s got some slow stuff, some really rockin’ stuff.

Selena:
Mm-hm!

[00:30:01]
Ryan:
Or, okay, I’m going to do a caveat—

Selena:
You can’t— [Ryan laughs] What’s with caveats?

Ryan:
That’s my secular option!

Selena:
Says just you. [Giggles]

Ryan:
I’m like a blues fan, so there’s that.

Selena:
All right! This one’s kind of a fun one. If you could be any animal, what would it be and why?

Ryan:
Uh, that’s easy! [Selena laughs] I’d be a bald eagle.

Selena:
[In disbelief] Really?! I thought you’d pick something in the water, ‘cause you like—

Ryan:
Because ‘Merica.

Selena:
[Laughs] Stop!

Ryan:
Nah. [Laughing] I’m just… [Both laugh] No—

Selena:
Oh, dear.

Ryan:
Because yeah, you know it’d be fun to be able to swim, but it’s pretty dark. Like, you get down below 60 feet—

Selena:
Okay.

Ryan:
And you can’t really see anything.

Selena:
Unless you’re…

Ryan:
When you can fly…

Selena:
You can see everything?

Ryan:
Nothing flies higher than a bald eagle.

Selena:
Okay.

Ryan:
So, yeah.

Selena:
I love eagles! You know I’m an eagle fan.

Ryan:
That’s actually the reason.

Selena:
Oh.

Ryan:
I just want you to love me.

Selena:
[Snickers] Stop!

Ryan:
[Cries out] Love me! [Both laugh]

Selena:
[Laughing] And I told you from the last episode, ‘cause you asked me what was one of the kind of bad…

Ryan:
Ah, you… stealer!

Selena:
Bad things I did, the naughty things I did. Not naughty as in…

Ryan:
You stealer!

Selena:
But bad— Breaking the rules! [Inhales] So… You have quite the colorful past.

Ryan:
Ah, it’s not that colorful. [Selena laughs]

Selena:
Compared to me, it is!

Ryan:
[Ryan snicker] Compared to you, it’s very colorful. [Selena laughs] Gosh.

Selena:
I know.

Ryan:
The worst thing I ever did… You know, Selena, we’re all sinners. [Selena laughs] And… We can fall.

Selena:
This is not—

Ryan:
Just falling short of the glory of God.

Selena:
This is not questioning your sinful nature. [Ryan laughs] This is… talking about one of those moments. [Selena laughs]

Ryan:
Okay, well I think probably one of the most, I’ll just say “underhanded,” like, I stole a lot of stuff as a kid. [Selena chuckles] I smoked a lot of things. [Ryan chuckles and Selena cackles] And I’m not proud of it.

Selena:
As a kid, like 14 and under, 15 and…?

Ryan:
It was like teenage years, yeah.

Selena:
Yeah, those young teenage years. [Selena snickers and Ryan cackles]

Ryan:
I— Selena, you shouldn’t have asked me this question, I’m telling you!

Selena:
The zoo! What about your zoo nights with guys? Your zoo…?

Ryan:
Okay! I’ll-I— Okay. I was going to share a really bad story, but I’ve got a lot of stories. But I mean the truly— Yeah. I don’t want to lose listeners this early on. [Selena laughs] Just know that God’s grace is huge!

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
In our lives, in my life. I’m thankful that this is all in my past. [Inhales] But I’m going to share a more tame story! [Selena chuckles] So, one time in high school, we used to hang out. We had this really close group of football guys. We had been playing together, and we you used to— I mean, every weekend we were just doing our version of partying. This is after all of the really colorful partying that we did, and that just meant we just hung out and swam in this guy’s pool. And—

Selena:
There was no drinking involved.

Ryan:
There was no drinking, nothing like that.

Selena:
It was just like— [Giggles] Yeah!

Ryan:
[Inhales] Anyway! So, we got into this tradition where we would haze each other whenever something good happened to anyone. [Both chuckle] I don’t know if it was like the sin mar—

Selena:
Like birthdays, or—?

Ryan:
Yeah, like, oh, good! It’s your birthday. Let’s get him!! You know?

Selena:
Oh, yeah! [Chuckles]

Ryan:
And we would just tackle him. And it escalated, right? And it got pretty scary at some points. [Selena giggles] Never unsafe, but a little unsafe. [Both laugh] Anyway. We ended up taking my friend, Nathan— He’s still actually one of my closest friends.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
He went to state for wrestling or something, so we said, “Hey, let’s celebrate! Let’s go out and haze Nathan.” So, we went and kidnapped him…

Selena:
Which took a lot of you.

Ryan:
Which, he’s very strong, so it took a lot of us. [Selena chuckles] And we ended up tackling him. We tied him to the bed of a truck… [Both chuckle] And we drove through a car wash. [Selena cackles and Ryan snickers] This was like… I don’t know when it was. It had to be somewhere between November and February.

Selena:
[Laughs] It was a little cold!

Ryan:
And it was cold…

Selena:
In Washington! [Cackles]

Ryan:
It was a over round, you know, he was wet. And then, of course, we ended with, you know, not something, like cake and chips or something. [Both laugh] I don’t know! Anyway…

Selena:
The bigger the haze, the more loved you felt, right?

Ryan:
Yes.

Selena:
That’s pretty good, pretty good.

Ryan:
Yes, it usually involved a lot of— yeah.

Selena:
Awesome.

Ryan:
A lot of minor pain, but yeah.

Selena:
[Snickers] On that note! [Both laugh] Let’s move on to our letters and stories that we’ve been getting! This is something new. Well, it’s new to us because it’s new to our podcast, but this is where people write in and share their love for each other and their appreciate for each other.

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
Where do we do this at?

Ryan:
Oh, yeah! Okay. So… A little while ago, we set up this thing on our website where people can submit letters—

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
To their spouse, and then they could give us permission to read them!

Selena:
Right!

Ryan:
And so, this letter that we have here is from Valerie, to her husband, Eddie. And—

Selena:
She said:
“Instead of trying to tell you how much I love you, which is nearly impossible, I just want to show you a few ways in which I know we are meant to be together forever. There may be some days that I feel like I don’t like you very much, but I always love you very much! When we are apart, I physically feel like a part of me is missing. I’m so blessed to know that I will be spending my life with you. Thank you for becoming a man that fears the Lord, a great husband and a good friend. I love you, always.”

Ryan:
That’s awesome!

Selena:
That’s so sweet.

Ryan:
That’s awesome.

Selena:
Great.

[00:35:00]
Ryan:
Yeah. So, I love that! I love that she acknowledged that he is becoming a man that fears the Lord!

Selena:
Mm. So good.

Ryan:
And then we talked about it last episode, about how the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And I think that’s what it looks like for a man to mature!

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And it’s noticeable.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
So, that’s… Two things are happening. I love that the man is taking the initiative and doing that, and because a lot of times we hear from wives would love for their husband to—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
To kind of get on board with who God has called them to be. And there’s a lot of frustration there! So, it’s really refreshing to hear—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
That he’s doing that. But then, it’s really the second thing that’s happening there is that Valerie is noticing it.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
And she’s acknowledging it, which is—

Selena:
That’s awesome.

Ryan:
Real encouraging!

Selena:
That’s awesome!

Ryan:
So, yeah, if you have a letter, a story, or a question—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
All you got to do is go to FierceMarriage.com/podcast. There’s a bunch of stuff there! There’s going to be show notes for today’s episode. There’s all kinds of other stuff, but namely, there’s links to write a letter and submit it! Or to share your story! There’s also a link to call in! Which is the other thing that we’re going to do. We don’t have a voicemail for you today, but we’d love for you to call in and leave a voicemail if that works for you! If you’re in your car—

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Listening to this, you could just call that phone number and we will pick it up! And we will answer your question—

Selena:
Mm-hm!

Ryan:
Or share your story! The number for that is 971-333-1120. That’s 971-333-1120! And—

Selena:
Oh, we have a personal greeting now!

Ryan:
Yeah, I fixed it. I figured it out.

Selena:
Woo-!

Ryan:
Yeah. So, we do have— It used to be—

Selena:
No more Goo-glah! [Both laugh]

Ryan:
It was Google’s canned greeting. [Selena laughs] But now it’s me! [Selena snickers] Currently. It’s not great, but it’s there! [Selena laughs] So, yeah! We’d love for you to call that! Again, it’s 971-333-1120. If you’re at your desk or somewhere with your phone or a computer, just go to FierceMarriage.com/podcast and you can find everything you need right there! All right! So, I think that’s about it! We do want to share about our latest pair of devotionals that we wrote!

Selena:
Yeah, yeah!

Ryan:
It’s called the 31-Day Pursuit, and there’s two books. It’s Husband in Pursuit and Wife in Pursuit!

Selena:
Mm-hm, mm-hm!

Ryan:
And basically, it’s 31 days—

Selena:
You wrote the Husband in Pursuit.

Ryan:
Yes.

Selena:
I wrote the Wife in Pursuit. [Ryan chuckles] Just in case anybody doesn’t know that!

Ryan:
Yes! You can find them on Amazon. You can also just go to 31DayPursuit.com.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
To learn more. The whole point is to learn exactly how you’re pursued by Christ—

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And then, draw a line from that Gospel message…

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
To how you pursue your spouse, in light of how you’re loved! Right?

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
And it was a transformational journey for us, writing it.

Selena:
Yeah, yeah.

Ryan:
Just any time you dive into how you’re pursued by Jesus and then, tangible ways to apply that source of love to how you love your spouse…

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
I think it’s going to help you out. So, yeah. 31DayPursuit.com; you can learn more there.

Selena:
Yeah, they’re really fun books! There’s just a lot of some personal stories about us, but also just how God’s connected the dots for us.

Ryan:
Mm-hm!

Selena:
There’s a cool field notes place to kind of put your own thoughts down… Prayer section and—

Ryan:
Mm-hm!

Selena:
Also, the what you can do! So, an action!

Ryan:
Yeah! Yep!

Selena:
A pursuit action.

Ryan:
Yeah, you’ll find that you’ll want to write in the book.

Selena:
You can discover all of this, yeah.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
And we want you to! Mess it up, make it yours.

Ryan:
Yes.

Selena:
And enjoy it. So, yeah!

Ryan:
Yeah!

Selena:
Praying for everybody on that.

Ryan:
All right! So, if you’ve enjoyed this show, we would really appreciate—

Selena:
Yes.

Ryan:
If you could rate us on whatever podcasting app you choose to use. [Selena squeals and then giggles] The internet thrives on ratings from people!

Selena:
Yeah…

Ryan:
Just like you. It takes like 30 seconds. Just go ahead, subscribe to us and leave a review.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
Just a sentence or two will work perfectly! Then, if you really enjoyed it, we’d love it if you’d share it with somebody!

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
Tell somebody who you think might need some help in their marriage, or maybe just some fun application of the Gospel.

Selena:
Mm-hm.

Ryan:
To modern marriage. Go ahead and share it with us— Share— [Ryan snickers] Share this with somebody. [Selena chuckles] Somebody who you think needs to hear it.

Selena:
Share it with us! We need to hear it too. [Laughs]

Ryan:
[Laughing] Yeah! But yeah, other than that, I think this episode is in the can! What do you think, Sel?

Selena:
I think it’s in the can. Hopefully we don’t sound like we’re in a can. [Both laugh]

Ryan:
[Laughing] Yeah. Yeah, thank you for listening, thank you for putting up with our learning curve!

Selena:
Yeah. We really appreciate you guys.

Ryan:
As we figure out the whole can thing. And let’s close in prayer, and then, yeah! And then we’ll see ya next week. All right. Selena, go for it!

Selena:
God, thank You so much for this time and this day. And thank You for giving us the opportunity to speak about Your word and how it’s transformed our hearts! I pray that Your Holy Spirit will continue to change the hearts that are listening!

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
God, that You know fully where each of us is. And out of Your loving kindness, You lead us closer to you, Father. And I pray for every heart and every mind and every ear, all the ears that are listening God, that Your voice would be the prevalent voice that they hear, and they take away this.

[00:40:04]
Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
I pray for all the marriages struggling with sexual intimacy, God. I feel like we all kind of have those moments of struggle, and I pray that You would help clarify the path to agreement. Help us to rise up and step into those roles that You’ve given us, trusting that there is joy and there is beauty and there is goodness that can only come from You! That will continue to bind us together as husband and wife, that will draw us closer to you and ultimately bring glory to You.

Ryan:
Mm-hm.

Selena:
We love You, God, and thank you for every single listener! And pray blessings and goodness over their lives.

Ryan:
Yeah.

Selena:
In Jesus’ Name.

Ryan:
Amen!

Selena:
Amen!

Ryan:
All right, guys! Thank you again for listening.

Selena:
Yeah!

Ryan:
If you want anything that we mentioned in this episode, in terms of information, resources, or to learn more about our sponsor, Datebox, just go to FierceMarriage.com/podcast!

Selena:
Yeah! Are we going to talk about next week, what we’re going to talk about?!

Ryan:
Yes! Next week…

Selena:
We are going to talk about priorities, ‘cause a lot of people have been writing in saying, “How do we keep our marriage a priority when everything is happening in our lives?” [Ryan snickers] All the things! We all know how this goes.

Ryan:
Yep!

Selena:
All the things.

Ryan:
Everybody’s busy, and busy is no longer… cool.

Selena:
Yeah.

Ryan:
Trying to figure out to simplify their lives, and I think we can hopefully help with that.

Selena:
We can share what we’ve learned! How God’s taught us to…

Ryan:
[Que ending music] Yep! All right!

Selena:
Get out priorities.

Ryan:
So, tune in next week for the Fierce Marriage podcast, episode three.

Selena:
Thanks for listening!

Ryan:
Take care, guys.

Selena:
Bye!

[00:41:39]

Podcast ends.

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